What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[ScottJ85]

New controversial opinion.

"People of Earth" was the closest Discovery got to capturing the feel of classic Trek. I mean, a conflict about to break out into full scale war because it just didn't occur to either side to try and talk it out, that's as TOS as you can get.

 

[Tallguy]

More of a question than an opinion: WHY is it shocking that Spock has a foster sister?

Is it shocking in The Survivor when McCoy mentions having a daughter? He never mentioned her before.

Is it shocking in The Wrath of Khan when Scott has a sister? He never mentioned her before! (The Making of Star Trek says he was an only child. AND that his parents are alive! He never mentioned them once!)

Even in nuTrek (post 2016) where is the pushback on Uhura's family all being killed in a shuttle accident? And she had a brother? That's weird because... Well, you know!

So why is Spock the character who we supposedly have an encyclopedic knowledge of (we really don't) that we can absolutely rule out that there was ever a woman who lived at their house when he was a boy and who his father kept very close ties with? (Seriously, who else is Sarek close to that we have never heard of?)

 

[Farscape One]

More of a question than an opinion: WHY is it shocking that Spock has a foster sister?

Is it shocking in The Survivor when McCoy mentions having a daughter? He never mentioned her before.

Is it shocking in The Wrath of Khan when Scott has a sister? He never mentioned her before! (The Making of Star Trek says he was an only child. AND that his parents are alive! He never mentioned them once!)

Even in nuTrek (post 2016) where is the pushback on Uhura's family all being killed in a shuttle accident? And she had a brother? That's weird because... Well, you know!

So why is Spock the character who we supposedly have an encyclopedic knowledge of (we really don't) that we can absolutely rule out that there was ever a woman who lived at their house when he was a boy and who his father kept very close ties with? (Seriously, who else is Sarek close to that we have never heard of?)

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, it's not that I find it shocking Burnham is his adopted sister. I simply find it to be a bad decision to tether the lead character of a brand new series so tightly with one that is arguably the face of the entire franchise. Out the gate, the show is telling me that she needs that kind of help to make a connection or bond with the audience instead of allowing her to be her own creation. And since the show is essentially HER series, it's telling me that the producers don't believe in the show enough to stand on its own two feet.

For a comparable situation of bringing the franchise back to tv, look at TNG. Not a single character had a connection to TOS. With only a couple exceptions in season 1, TNG had no connections to TOS, which was something Roddenberry wanted. And on that decision, I fully agreed with... it gave TNG a chance to shine on its own instead of relying on past work to elevate it.

The result? By many metrics, TNG became the most popular series in the franchise.

The result of DISCO? It's probably the most divisive series in the franchise, even almost a year after it ended.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Yeah I think Spock having a secret sister is jarring for two reasons:

1. He's the only TOS character whose parents made an appearance, and they showed up a number of times. Plus we saw his childhood in TAS. We actually had an idea of what was like for him growing up. It already felt weird when he got a secret brother in Star Trek V, so doing it again was a bit eye-rolling.

2. What Farscape said. Tying Burnham to Spock felt like a real hack author move, blatantly done just to give the character unearned importance. It would've been almost as bad if she was Uhura's sister, or Sulu's, but they went for the most popular character and that just makes it worse. It's like the embarrassing decon chamber sequences in Enterprise, transparently there just to pull in more audience.

 

[Tallguy]

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, it's not that I find it shocking Burnham is his adopted sister. I simply find it to be a bad decision to tether the lead character of a brand new series so tightly with one that is arguably the face of the entire franchise. Out the gate, the show is telling me that she needs that kind of help to make a connection or bond with the audience instead of allowing her to be her own creation. And since the show is essentially HER series, it's telling me that the producers don't believe in the show enough to stand on its own two feet.

For a comparable situation of bringing the franchise back to tv, look at TNG. Not a single character had a connection to TOS. With only a couple exceptions in season 1, TNG had no connections to TOS, which was something Roddenberry wanted. And on that decision, I fully agreed with... it gave TNG a chance to shine on its own instead of relying on past work to elevate it.

The result? By many metrics, TNG became the most popular series in the franchise.

The result of DISCO? It's probably the most divisive series in the franchise, even almost a year after it ended.

Remind me how we were introduced to Benjamin Sisko? Shamelessly tying a new character to (at that time) arguably Star Trek's most popular episode? AND the current star of the "other show"? Also kind of what put TNG on "the map". Let's be fair: Nobody but Roddenberry ever wanted to distance Star Trek from Star Trek. Whatever his motives (presumably money and sex) he had the right instinct. And boy did fans (me) decry it at the time.

But while this is certainly a valid criticism of Michael from a story telling point of view I still hear from many quarters the objection that Spock couldn't have had a sister (or even a foster sister!) because we would have known about it.

Flipping the storytelling on its head a bit, I think this serves Disco by setting a time and a place as well as a gateway for new fans. (Really, one of the only original concessions to its 2250's settings that early Disco made.) Which is what DS9 did as well.

But really, I just like Michael and Sarek. And I was pretty OK with Michael and Spock, although I would have been fine with not bringing in the Enterprise at all. (Yes, I know this is how we got SNW, a show I like more than most Star Treks.)

 

[Nyotarules]

Tying Burnham to Spock felt like a real hack author move, blatantly done just to give the character unearned importance.

I wonder if the producers had planned to introduce Spock and Pike in season two when setting up season one, hence the sibling connection?
However you can create a connection with Spock without them being related. Burnham's parents could have been fellow ambassadors who know each other on the Diplomatic circuit, or scientists living on Vulcan as Sarek's neighbours.

 

[Forbin]

Now I'm imagining a Lower Decks episode where we meet a starship crewed entirely by dozens of Spock's previously unknown siblings.

 

[Nyotarules]

Now I'm imagining a Lower Decks episode where we meet a starship crewed entirely by dozens of Spock's previously unknown siblings.

Commanders Michaela, Michelle, Mikhail, Michel, Micky, Mick, Miguel

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Having a connection with a character whose personal life we know less about would feel a lot more world-building and a lot less contrived. We knew nearly nothing about Uhura's childhood - so they could have made Michael her friend/cousin who was like a sister.

I wonder if we'll ever see Sybok's mother, the Vulcan princess.

Now I'm imagining a Lower Decks episode where we meet a starship crewed entirely by dozens of Spock's previously unknown siblings.

Actually, if Spock's parents tried to have a child via futuristic fertility/in vitro procedures, we could have an entire embryo bank of failed/additional hybrid baby attempts that could be thawed and gestated sometime in the future.

 

[fireproof78]

I think it would be better for Paramount to withdraw from the streaming business and sell the old and finished New Trek TV series and old Star Trek movies to Netflix so that they can produce new Star Trek TV shows. I think the streaming business will also be withdrawn in the short or long term.

I appreciate your analysis but my post was tongue in cheek about being s controversial opinion.

Your opinion is actually pretty uncontroversial, at least around here.

 

[Tallguy]

I would argue (would I ever!) that focusing a show on characters with connections to other shows / characters does not make the world smaller, rather it's why we are watching these characters. We can watch anyone in Starfleet. Why NOT watch the one who lived at Spock's house?

Now... When that same person runs into all the same people that Spock did? (Mudd!) THAT makes the universe smaller.

Heck, going back to The Sisko, why is he not only at Wolf 359 but he also has a new Chief Engineer who ALSO served with Picard? (Did they ever talk about that? "Oh. Yeah. We showed up a few hours later. That was a mess. Begging your pardon, sir.") AND he runs into Picard's ex-girlfriend! AND Q!

Speaking of Q: Does he only visit Starship Captains who are on TV?

 

[fireproof78]

I would argue (would I ever!) that focusing a show on characters with connections to other shows / characters does not make the world smaller, rather it's why we are watching these characters. We can watch anyone in Starfleet. Why NOT watch the one who lived at Spock's house?

Now... When that same person runs into all the same people that Spock did? (Mudd!) THAT makes the universe smaller.

Heck, going back to The Sisko, why is he not only at Wolf 359 but he also has a new Chief Engineer who ALSO served with Picard? (Did they ever talk about that? "Oh. Yeah. We showed up a few hours later. That was a mess. Begging your pardon, sir.") AND he runs into Picard's ex-girlfriend! AND Q!

Speaking of Q: Does he only visit Starship Captains who are on TV?

What I learned today is that Deep Space Nine is horrible and a guilty of small world syndrome.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Season 1 did have its issues, yeah.

 

[Tallguy]

I wonder if the producers had planned to introduce Spock and Pike in season two when setting up season one, hence the sibling connection?

It always felt to me like they didn't. But that's totally vibes, no actual facts.

 

[BillJ]

I would argue (would I ever!) that focusing a show on characters with connections to other shows / characters does not make the world smaller, rather it's why we are watching these characters. We can watch anyone in Starfleet. Why NOT watch the one who lived at Spock's house?

Now... When that same person runs into all the same people that Spock did? (Mudd!) THAT makes the universe smaller.

Heck, going back to The Sisko, why is he not only at Wolf 359 but he also has a new Chief Engineer who ALSO served with Picard? (Did they ever talk about that? "Oh. Yeah. We showed up a few hours later. That was a mess. Begging your pardon, sir.") AND he runs into Picard's ex-girlfriend! AND Q!

Speaking of Q: Does he only visit Starship Captains who are on TV?

Like anything else, it is a fine needle to thread. If Star Trek had always been exclusively about Kirk, Spock and McCoy, focusing on them even more might make sense. Once, they start expanding the universe with shows that have other characters and situations, I'm someone more interested in continually expanding. Not backtracking to lost siblings of much better characters. That isn't a slight against Sonequa Martin-Green or James Frain or Rainn Wilson or others, all solid actors.

From my perspective, I want to be rewarded for paying attention to the franchise over fifty years, not having its past upchucked on the screen because they have no faith that their characters and situations can stand on their own.

Of course, it is a mileage may vary type of situation.

 

[Commander Troi]

Speaking of Q: Does he only visit Starship Captains who are on TV?

Jean-Luc is Special to Q.

I never felt they made Michael Spock's sister because they had no faith in DIS. I'm with @Tallguy - I'd rather watch the Starfleet officer who lived in Sarek's home.

 

[BillJ]

I'd rather watch the Starfleet officer who lived in Sarek's home.

We had already watched a Starfleet officer that grew up in Sarek's home. For four decades.

 

[fireproof78]

If one is good, two is better.

 

[Lady Mondegreen]

Common misunderstanding. The average life expectency was that low, but that was mostly because there was very high infant mortality and death in childbirth then. It was not that unusual for someone who made it to adulthood to live to their 70s or even longer.

Off-topic but this is sort of a misunderstanding of a misunderstanding. It's true that life expectancy in the middle ages is significantly longer when you strip out the influence of child mortality, but many sources suggest that among people who survived to adulthood, the mean life expectancy was still around 50 years. It wouldn't be shocking for someone to survive to the age of 70, but it definitely wouldn't be expected. (Here's a study that puts the life expectancy for a 15-year-old female at around 50 years for England and Wales during that period.)

 

[Farscape One]

Jean-Luc is Special to Q.

I never felt they made Michael Spock's sister because they had no faith in DIS. I'm with @Tallguy - I'd rather watch the Starfleet officer who lived in Sarek's home.

Q also appeared on the Cerritos...

If one is good, two is better.

More is not always better. Great example: Q appearing on VOYAGER. "DEATH WISH" was excellent. The other two episodes, "THE Q AND THE GREY" and "Q2"... terrible.