I doubt a lot of the Star Trek we have today would even be here without Star Trek 09.
And Beyond was quite good, IMHO.
Hell, if you cut 20 minutes out and don’t have Khan in it, Into Darkness would be pretty good too.
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
- Start date
I doubt a lot of the Star Trek we have today would even be here without Star Trek 09.
And Beyond was quite good, IMHO.
Hell, if you cut 20 minutes out and don’t have Khan in it, Into Darkness would be pretty good too.
Beyond is the best Trek movie period.
But if precedent is any indication, anyone concerned can probably rest easy that Star Trek 4 is clearly not happening anyway.
But if precedent is any indication, anyone concerned can probably rest easy that Star Trek 4 is clearly not happening anyway.
I want a Star Trek 4 in the the Kelvinverse
TOS's hopeful vision of the future is very different from early TNG's. I would strongly argue that VOY and ENT S1-2 was a continuation of TNG's utopianism, and that DIS S2 and S4, SNW S1, PIC S2, LD S1-3, and PRO S1 all represent a continuation of the TOS-type vision of optimism for the future.
Yep. In fact, I'd go one step further: If Star Trek '09 had not proven that Star Trek was still a financially viable franchise, I think there's a strong case that Star Trek would have died then and not returned. ST09 is the turning point that saved Star Trek.
I recently gave my take on the Kelvin Films and why I supported them, despite not being a fan of them. Seems like it's relevant here too.
-- cutting and pasting --
Even though I wasn't the hugest fan of them, I didn't dislike them. And I knew that these films would eventually lead to Star Trek coming back to TV, which actually could lead to Star Trek I'd be more of a fan of. Discovery and Picard turned out to be those things I'm more of a fan of. So my instincts turned out to be right. So I supported the 2009 Film even though it wasn't really my thing. And whenever non-fans who went to go see the 2009 Film asked what I thought of it, I gave out a canned answer. "I thought it was great!" It got annoying after a while, but I did it anyway. "I thought it was great!" Everyone I knew at work asked me that. Everyone I still knew from when I was in high school or college asked me that. That was an interesting time.
-- cutting and pasting --
Even though I wasn't the hugest fan of them, I didn't dislike them. And I knew that these films would eventually lead to Star Trek coming back to TV, which actually could lead to Star Trek I'd be more of a fan of. Discovery and Picard turned out to be those things I'm more of a fan of. So my instincts turned out to be right. So I supported the 2009 Film even though it wasn't really my thing. And whenever non-fans who went to go see the 2009 Film asked what I thought of it, I gave out a canned answer. "I thought it was great!" It got annoying after a while, but I did it anyway. "I thought it was great!" Everyone I knew at work asked me that. Everyone I still knew from when I was in high school or college asked me that. That was an interesting time.
I love Beyond. And the teaser of Into Darkness was the best Original Series episode in 30 years.
The problem with STID isn't Khan... Isn't JUST Khan. It's the whole "inside job" plot.
Even Beyond... Can't we have a movie where we Boldly Go?!? Chris Pine deserves better!
I disagree that the Kelvin movies "saved" Star Trek. The era of the streaming service was going to arrive whether those movies were made or not, and Paramount was still going to want something to anchor their new streaming service.
Last edited:
I love the Kelvin films. As Trek as TWOK.
Whenever there's a trailer for a new piece of Star Trek, without fail, the people who liked what they saw will immediately respond with some variation of "loved it!", then the (over-)reactionaries will chime in like clockwork, and then finally after the love-fests and the hate-fests, we get a more even-handed back-and-forth and the adults return to the room.
What do this have to do with anything? The reactionaries have weighed in on how much they already hate PIC Season 3. They all responded all at once on one page. Normally I wouldn't talk about that here...
BUT
The way they weighed in reinforces my earlier point in this thread. There's no way these people think that PIC Season 3 is anything like TNG Season 1. And if you told them, "Star Trek's been the same since 1987", they'd tell you that isn't the case. They'd go apeshit. They don't think it and they hate PIC. I don't think it and I love PIC. We're on two opposite sides, we're coming at it from completely different angles, so I have to tell TOS Only Fans that NO, Star Trek has not been the same (or mostly the same) since 1987. No one thinks that except for people who haven't bothered to keep up in decades.
I was looking for other people to prove my point and they delivered it to me on a silver platter.
What do this have to do with anything? The reactionaries have weighed in on how much they already hate PIC Season 3. They all responded all at once on one page. Normally I wouldn't talk about that here...
BUT
The way they weighed in reinforces my earlier point in this thread. There's no way these people think that PIC Season 3 is anything like TNG Season 1. And if you told them, "Star Trek's been the same since 1987", they'd tell you that isn't the case. They'd go apeshit. They don't think it and they hate PIC. I don't think it and I love PIC. We're on two opposite sides, we're coming at it from completely different angles, so I have to tell TOS Only Fans that NO, Star Trek has not been the same (or mostly the same) since 1987. No one thinks that except for people who haven't bothered to keep up in decades.
I was looking for other people to prove my point and they delivered it to me on a silver platter.
Last edited:
Possibly. But it's just as likely that if ST09 had failed or never been made, that Paramount would have had some six-episode miniseries revival for streaming but then not advertised it, causing it to sputter out and die instantly as we've seen with so many streaming revivals these past few years.
STAR TREK was coming back at some point. It's Paramount's cash cow, and with them wanting to get into the streaming wars, there was absolutely no way they were not going to do something with the franchise. The fanbase is too large. The 2009 movie and the sequels just helped bring it back sooner.
(I absolutely hate both 09 and INTO DARKNESS, but I fully credit 09 for reviving the interest to a larger audience. BEYOND was the only good Kelvinverse movie.)
(I absolutely hate both 09 and INTO DARKNESS, but I fully credit 09 for reviving the interest to a larger audience. BEYOND was the only good Kelvinverse movie.)
In 2005, the fanbase had become small by those era's standards. It was not a cash cow anymore. In a counter-factual world where either ST09 never gets made or fails at the box office, it is not at all inevitable that Paramount in the late 2010s would conclude that the fanbase was still sufficiently large enough to warrant putting a lot of resources and advertising into a streaming revival, even if they were to make one. Plenty of streaming revivals of old I.P. have come and gone because their studios did not think the audience was large enough to warrant putting sufficient resources and advertising behind them.
DISCO was the flagship program on the new streaming service. I have a hard time believing that that would have happened without the success of STXI+.
I LOVE THE TREK LIFE
I GOT TO BOOGIE
ON THE TRANSPORTER PAD
I GOT TO BOOGIE
ON THE TRANSPORTER PAD
Sorry, data entry meltdown, there, for a spell. 
And what about Discovery? That show got attacked, still gets attacked and has constantly been the victim of "That's not Star Trek, it's too woke and forced diversity agenda" and that is something I keep seeing online and the pile ons and gatekeeping from both sides of that argument.
And even the small amount of ST fans still far outnumber a lot of other attempted revivals of other I.P.s. STAR TREK is one of the highest grossing franchises ever.
(The fanbase was small for ENT, true. But I don't think the fanbase as a whole shrunk that much. Not when you have conventions and products being sold over the years since ENT ended.)
The phrase 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' truly applies to STAR TREK. A break was needed to bring it back to life again. Even if 09 failed, there would be a new series on at some point. We simply got it faster.
All that is true, but their ire is focused on PIC right now.
I'm sure it'll all revert to DSC when the fifth season premieres, but I've been fighting that battle for five years, and I'm taking a break. They have endless energy, but I don't. I'm not taking them on in The Disco War and The Picard War at the same time.
And, yeah, their Basher Energy is limitless. It's like it fuels itself. You'd think 40, 50, 60-year-olds would have more important things in life to hate. I hate hunger, I hate poverty, I hate racial injustice, I hate misogyny. They hate Star Trek shows. But whatever. More power to them that they can hate something so much that ultimately doesn't matter.
And the harsh truth is: I've wasted a lot of time, too much time engaging with them. They're ridiculous and I'm ridiculous for interacting with them. There were a couple of instances today where I just up and walked away from it. I'm glad I finally got to the point where I was finally able to do that. I should've done that a long time ago. I could be in there right now still arguing back-and-forth with them at this very minute, but I'm not. I walked away from it by choice by finally realizing, "This is ridiculous!"
I feel good about it.
Yeah, it's a small thing, it's not exactly much of an accomplishment at all, but sometimes it's all about the small things.
Last edited:
I have to be honest, but I don't see nearly as much "STD iZ TeH WoKe!!!1!" stuff out there as some of you are claiming. I see a lot of people griping about a lot of stuff, but honestly, that seems to be in the bottom 1/3 of reasons I see commonly sited across the wonderful internet.
I see lot of complaints about the writing, about the characters, about continuity, and about the inability of the serialized plotlines to be paced or end on a satisfying note for people far more than I see these kinds of complaints.
Unpopular Star Trek Opinion:
Star Trek does NOT need another "war" plotline. OMG I can't travel the internet or Twitter without seeing people crying for a Romulan War series, for example. Folks, we've had several "war" story arcs in Trek. It's been done. To DEATH. It's best left untold. I'm very happy with the future of Star Trek being PRO, SNW, and perhaps a new Section 31 spy thriller or a Starfleet Academy show to replace PIC. But, I have absolutely positively no interest in seeing Star Trek Wars again.
I see lot of complaints about the writing, about the characters, about continuity, and about the inability of the serialized plotlines to be paced or end on a satisfying note for people far more than I see these kinds of complaints.
Unpopular Star Trek Opinion:
Star Trek does NOT need another "war" plotline. OMG I can't travel the internet or Twitter without seeing people crying for a Romulan War series, for example. Folks, we've had several "war" story arcs in Trek. It's been done. To DEATH. It's best left untold. I'm very happy with the future of Star Trek being PRO, SNW, and perhaps a new Section 31 spy thriller or a Starfleet Academy show to replace PIC. But, I have absolutely positively no interest in seeing Star Trek Wars again.
Similar threads
- Locked
