What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[1001001]

I think the entire Emissary thing was stupid. Probably the main reason that DS9 ranks so low on my list.

 

[Vger23]

The entire pilot episode plays as if the intent was the opposite, starting with Kai Opaka's line, continuing with him discovering the Prophets for the first time, and ending with him dickering with the Prophets on behalf of Bajor. At that point the Prophets do not know who he is, so it's difficult to see that he was meant to represent them. (Any references to predestination, Sarah, nonlinear birth, or whatever didn't come up until much later in the show and don't appear to have been part of the original concept.)

Later, however, it is as you say.



In my personal and controversial opinion.

I’m not trying to argue. After all, this thread IS about controversial opinions. That said, I’ve see the DS9 pilot more times than I can count, and I never once was under the impression you’ve described.

 

[Orphalesion]

I think the entire Emissary thing was stupid.

That's a controversial opinion?
It was an incredibly stupid idea. That and that whole Benny Russel BS.

 

[Vger23]

That's a controversial opinion?
It was an incredibly stupid idea. That and that whole Benny Russel BS.

I loved them both, so it’s certainly controversial from where I sit.

 

[Lord Garth]

I sadly think "Far Beyond the Stars" is more relevant now than in 1998.

At the time I thought, "Look at how backwards they were in the '50s!" Now I realize that could be today in several places. Benny's editor could say, "No, we're not going to make everything woke! That's for liberals, intellectuals, and SJWs!" And the police beating Benny Russell after "Jake" was shot. I don't even need to go into that one...

 

[Vger23]

I sadly think "Far Beyond the Stars" is more relevant now than in 1998.

At the time I thought, "Look at how backwards the were in the '50s!" Now I realize that could be today in several places. Benny's editor could say, "No, we're not going to make everything woke! That's for liberals, intellectuals, and SJWs!" And the police beating Benny Russel and after "Jake" was shot. I don't even need to go into that one...

I saw it for the first time in over a decade about 2 months ago, and it twisted my stomach. Much more powerful than I remembered. Amazing stuff.

 

[Odo]

Yeah, Benny Russell's story is, in my opinion, perhaps the most important part of DS9. As Garth said above, it's all too relevant today. Regarding the emissary stuff, I thought it made for some interesting stories and dilemmas.

Trying to think of a controversial DS9 opinion I hold - here's one - Keiko's a good character!

 

[Silvercrest]

How dare you sir???!!!

 

[tomalak301]

Trying to think of a controversial DS9 opinion I hold - here's one - Keiko's a good character!

I agree, and I never had an issue with her complaining about being on the station. She was useless and she stayed because of Miles. Actually, Kaiko and O'Brian's marriage was pretty realistic.

 

[cooleddie74]

Keiko and Miles had the most realistic romantic relationship in all of Trek. They were an occasionally squabbling married couple with two small children and the infrequent job and location change. If any relationship in the franchise said: "modern couple with real-life issues" it was them.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Federation starships seem incredibly small and I'd like to see a proper working starship (not a moving starbase or 'city in space') that is a lot bigger than the Galaxy class.

You should pop over to YouTube and look for EC Henry's vid on the E-D being insanely huge, it really helps put things in perspective.

I agree, and I never had an issue with her complaining about being on the station. She was useless and she stayed because of Miles. Actually, Kaiko and O'Brian's marriage was pretty realistic.

I really enjoy Keiko. She didn't get much screen time but she showed herself to be a loving wife and mother, an accomplished botanist, a natural teacher, she also spoke her mind and fought for what she thought was right, as well as having a wonderful sense of humour. I really don't understand the hate she gets.

 

[Orphalesion]

I sadly think "Far Beyond the Stars" is more relevant now than in 1998.

At the time I thought, "Look at how backwards they were in the '50s!" Now I realize that could be today in several places. Benny's editor could say, "No, we're not going to make everything woke! That's for liberals, intellectuals, and SJWs!" And the police beating Benny Russell after "Jake" was shot. I don't even need to go into that one...

To get this clear I'm not saying that racial and minority issues aren't an important topic. They are. And should be discussed in fiction. So don't get any ideas that I'm unaware of of racism or social problems only because I don't like "Far Beyond the Distant Stars"
I read quite a lot on that topic and enjoy various novels, movies or shows discussing racism in a historical or contemporary setting.

My ONLY problem with Benny Russel and "Far Beyond the Distant Stars" is: It's not an episode of Deep Space 9. It is a story about a minority writer in the 1950s starring the same actors. And I'm getting annoyed when people call it "the best DS9 episode" because to me they are saying "oh the best episode of DS9 is when it's not DS9! When it's a real show not some silly stupid Scifi!" I know they might not mean it that way, but that's how it sounds to me.
And if I want a story about the struggles of minorities in the 1950s (or whenever) I have enough high quality material to get that from, I don't watch DS9 for that. If DS9 wanted to discuss racial issues, then I think, it should have done so in the primary setting of the show itself, on DS9, on Bajor, on Cardassia, on 24th Century Earth, whichever. Just not on Earth in the 1950s.

Edit: Also with "Benny Russel BS" I didn't necessarily mean the episode, but the idea that DS9 is "really" a fiction created by him. That's just so navel-gazing and cliche and stupid to me.

 

[1001001]

To get this clear I'm not saying that racial and minority issues aren't an important topic. They are. And should be discussed in fiction. So don't get any ideas that I'm unaware of of racism or social problems only because I don't like "Far Beyond the Distant Stars"
I read quite a lot on that topic and enjoy various novels, movies or shows discussing racism in a historical or contemporary setting.

My ONLY problem with Benny Russel and "Far Beyond the Distant Stars" is: It's not an episode of Deep Space 9. It is a story about a minority writer in the 1950s starring the same actors. And I'm getting annoyed when people call it "the best DS9 episode" because to me they are saying "oh the best episode of DS9 is when it's not DS9! When it's a real show not some silly stupid Scifi!" I know they might not mean it that way, but that's how it sounds to me.
And if I want a story about the struggles of minorities in the 1950s (or whenever) I have enough high quality material to get that from, I don't watch DS9 for that. If DS9 wanted to discuss racial issues, then I think, it should have done so in the primary setting of the show itself, on DS9, on Bajor, on Cardassia, on 24th Century Earth, whichever. Just not on Earth in the 1950s.

I'm fine with "The Crew in Another Life" type stories (see Carbon Creek for example).

My problem here is Brooks overacting.

I mean, he Shatnered the Hell out of that episode.

 

[Orphalesion]

I'm fine with "The Crew in Another Life" type stories (see Carbon Creek for example).

Yeah see, I don't like that. Because to me it's always this de-valuation of SciFi. Like "oh we need a break from this silly scifi and want to be 'real' for a change". That's why I instantly close off when an episode like that shows up. I have the same issue with holo-deck episodes like "The Big Goodbye" (to me Stardust City Rag was infinitely better than TBG, because it was a Noir story in the Star Trek universe, instead of an 'elseworld' tale)
No I don't need a break from the SciFi show, I'm watching it because it's a scifi show. And if I want something else, I'll watch that.
Like as I so often say, non-scifi shows don't have episodes were they are suddenly set in space or Medieval time "as a break/diversion" so why would scifi need it?
Discuss Racial issues and other serious topics in SciFi...but do it in SciFi, not some office drama about some unrelated characters.

 

[Vger23]

Yeah see, I don't like that. Because to me it's always this de-valuation of SciFi. Like "oh we need a break from this silly scifi and want to be 'real' for a change". That's why I instantly close off when an episode like that shows up. I have the same issue with holo-deck episodes like "The Big Goodbye" (to me Stardust City Rag was infinitely better than TBG, because it was a Noir story in the Star Trek universe, instead of an 'elseworld' tale)
No I don't need a break from the SciFi show, I'm watching it because it's a scifi show. And if I want something else, I'll watch that.
Like as I so often say, non-scifi shows don't have episodes were they are suddenly set in space or Medieval time "as a break/diversion" so why would scifi need it?
Discuss Racial issues and other serious topics in SciFi...but do it in SciFi, not some office drama about some unrelated characters.

I don’t think it’s any more “taking a break from this silly sci-fi show” than the typical time travel or holodeck stories are.

 

[Orphalesion]

I don’t think it’s any more “taking a break from this silly sci-fi show” than the typical time travel or holodeck stories are.

Yeah and I don't like those either. Same thing for me. Hence why I mentioned "the Big Goodbye"(aka "Picard LARPS a crappy Noir Story) as another (to me) negative example.
I don't want any "breaks from SciFi" in my Scifi show.

I prefer episodes like the Siege of AR-558, where they put elements from other genres and/or serious topics into their SciFi setting.

 

[Amasov]

Big time disagree, in fact I think having the 2-3 episode arc in Enterprise S4 was the perfect way to go and should be the template for “Strange New Worlds.”

You can still do stand alone bottle episodes in the TOS/TNG mode and then flip to do basically a mini movie. The problem is with probably only 13-15 episodes, doing something like that more than once would be tough.

Agreed, so, let's push for 26 episodes a season then.

 

[Amasov]

Is saying Voyager is a bad series a controversial opinion?

Nope, because I remember back then people not liking the show and essentially bucketing it along with Enterprise as the two shows responsible for the-then perceived death of Trek. And that's why I find it so odd that in the years since, I've seen people start to embrace it as being one of the, if not THE, best Star Trek series.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Discovery is starting to feel like a teen/family drama.

A new father who has just had a bunch of teens thrown at him to look after. Is unsure of himself and is trying his best to muddle through it.

A shy teen and her reluctant older mentor.

A teen with poor impulse control and who has found new love after being badly hurt.

The outsider who has never known what a real family is like and is reluctantly warming to it whilst simultaneously pushing against it.

Lots of crying and tantrums.

At this point in the season I'd be more interested in what a day in the life of Admiral Vance is like than anything going on with the discovery crew.

You know I was thinking something similar with this week's episode. It felt very CW in the way the story unfolded.

 

[Court_Vince]

Nope, because I remember back then people not liking the show and essentially bucketing it along with Enterprise as the two shows responsible for the-then perceived death of Trek. And that's why I find it so odd that in the years since, I've seen people start to embrace it as being one of the, if not THE, best Star Trek series.

It's just gone through the cycle all Treks go through. ppl hate it in the beginning and while it airs and then some years later people talk about how its great series and all that.