What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Paul755]

Yeah, Worf is a poor at best Father.

But I do agree, he (and Martok) are pretty much the definitive Klingons.

 

[1001001]

Elnor should have been a breakout character, and I don’t know why he didn’t become one.

He had to return to Middle Earth.

 

[GhoulEddie74]

Only Sarek makes Worf look like a good father.

 

[FredH]

Only Sarek makes Worf look like a good father.

Thing is, Worf tried. He meant well. It’s not unreasonable to say that Alexander was simply too human for him; maybe he’d have done better if his son had been surrounded by… Klingonity? during his early years, so differently socialized.

Which is not to say Sarek didn’t also mean well, but frankly I’m surprised Michael turned out as well as she did. I’m not surprised at how it affected Spock.

 

[GhoulEddie74]

And then you have Sybok. And we all know how his life path ended and the road he traveled.

 

[Rahul]

I agree with all of this... except for father figure. He was a bad dad. We have far better examples of a father figure, like Sisko and O'Brien.

Well. I wrote he's a father figure. Not a good father figure
No, but you're right, he isn't exactly good at that. But also not the worst. Being a single dad is kind of difficult. Especially if your kid is not part of the main cast...

 

[Frightscape One]

Well. I wrote he's a father figure. Not a good father figure
No, but you're right, he isn't exactly good at that. But also not the worst. Being a single dad is kind of difficult. Especially if your kid is not part of the main cast...

Being a single parent is difficult, but we have seen it done. And well. Ben Sisko was a single dad for the better part of 10 years before Jake turned 18.

 

[Paul755]

Thing is, Worf tried. He meant well. It’s not unreasonable to say that Alexander was simply too human for him; maybe he’d have done better if his son had been surrounded by… Klingonity? during his early years, so differently socialized.

Which is not to say Sarek didn’t also mean well, but frankly I’m surprised Michael turned out as well as she did. I’m not surprised at how it affected Spock.

I always wondered why Worf kept sending him off to live with his adopted parents and not to live with Kurn.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Almost as if he were able to sense what direction the conversation in this thread would take on this day, Steve Shives posted the following video earlier today...

 

[Citiprime]

Elnor should have been a breakout character, and I don’t know why he didn’t become one.

I always felt Elnor was a weird throwback to 80s "kid" characters, and ultimately suffered for some of the same reasons the characterization of Wesley did. Except, instead of being on the Wesley end of the child character spectrum, Elnor is on the other end and more an Atreyu-like character, who instead of being the smartest kid in the room that knows more than adult characters, he's the child warrior who is better skilled than others.

Only Sarek makes Worf look like a good father.

Although, an alternate way of looking at this is there's something to be said about Worf at least having the honesty to acknowledge his limitations and the realities of a child living on a starship where weird shit happens on a regular basis. I know this becomes a plot point during season 6 of Deep Space Nine, but I never felt like Worf sent Alexander away to forget about him. I think Worf honestly believed Alexander would have a better upbringing as a child living with his human grandparents than living alongside someone trying to live a Klingon warrior's life.

And, in an in-direct way, it says a whole lot about how deep-down Worf values his human upbringing. He's like Spock in that way. Both outwardly project a belief in the values of being Vulcan and Klingon, but on some level realize the worth of their human influences.

In relation to this, beyond Worf, it's interesting to point out the majority of the TNG crew come from "broken" families and end up having family issues of their own. Their backstory arguably influences those issues, and their relationship as a crew aboard the Enterprise-D arguably becomes the substitute for those familial connections.

• Picard's tortured relationship with his father and mother becomes a plot-point in Picard season 2 and arguably impacts his decisions about having a family of his own.
• Riker doesn't get along with his father and ultimately has problems dealing with loss and connection in his own family with Troi.
• Data's relationship with Soong and Lore is complicated to say the least.
• Beverly is raising Wesley as a single mother, and goes on to make some "interesting" choices for how she raises Jack.
• Troi's relationship with Lwaxana is loving but complicated, with Troi having lost her sister and father at a young age.
• Tasha Yar's backstory is a nightmare of fighting for survival alone with only her sister on a planet with "rape gangs."

Also, similar to some of the questions people have pondered about how outlooks on sexuality may have changed in the future, another aspect to this is what changes to the definition of "family" and parenting may have happened in the next 300 years.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I always felt Elnor was a weird throwback to 80s "kid" characters, and ultimately suffered for some of the same reasons the characterization of Wesley did. Except, instead of being on the Wesley end of the child character spectrum, Elnor is on the other end and more an Atreyu-like character, who instead of being the smartest kid in the room that knows more than adult characters, he's the child warrior who is better skilled than others.

Although, an alternate way of looking at this is there's something to be said about Worf at least having the honesty to acknowledge his limitations and the realities of a child living on a starship where weird shit happens on a regular basis. I know this becomes a plot point during season 6 of Deep Space Nine, but I never felt like Worf sent Alexander away to forget about him. I think Worf honestly believed Alexander would have a better upbringing as a child living with his human grandparents than living alongside someone trying to live a Klingon warrior's life.

And, in an in-direct way, it says a whole lot about how deep-down Worf values his human upbringing. He's like Spock in that way. Both outwardly project a belief in the values of being Vulcan and Klingon, but on some level realize the worth of their human influences.

In relation to this, beyond Worf, it's interesting to point out the majority of the TNG crew come from "broken" families and end up having family issues of their own. Their backstory arguably influences those issues, and their relationship as a crew aboard the Enterprise-D arguably becomes the substitute for those familial connections.

• Picard's tortured relationship with his father and mother becomes a plot-point in Picard season 2 and arguably impacts his decisions about having a family of his own.
• Riker doesn't get along with his father and ultimately has problems dealing with loss and connection in his own family with Troi.
• Data's relationship with Soong and Lore is complicated to say the least.
• Beverly is raising Wesley as a single mother, and goes on to make some "interesting" choices for how she raises Jack.
• Troi's relationship with Lwaxana is loving but complicated, with Troi having lost her sister and father at a young age.
• Tasha Yar's backstory is a nightmare of fighting for survival alone with only her sister on a planet with "rape gangs."

Also, similar to some of the questions people have pondered about how outlooks on sexuality may have changed in the future, another aspect to this is what changes to the definition of "family" and parenting may have happened in the next 300 years.

A Vulcan's life expectancy can exceed 200 years, so 300 years can effect sometimes to as little as 2 generations.

Is Micheal Burnham a Princess?

If Sarek married a princess, then he may have been a prince, and his children, biological or adopted, would have been also Royal?

 

[kkt]

Kirk and Spock are in love with each other. I've thought this for decades, and people have thought it before I was even born, but the YouTube channel Gaywatch really drove it home for me.

I'll never buy Spock in a straight relationship. Any attempt he makes is doomed to failure because it's not who he is. (Somehow the butterfly effect of the Kelvin Timeline made Spock straight over there, so we're going to shove that to the side where it belongs). Spock is gay.

Kirk, OTOH, isn't. He loves women too much. So he's bi. He loves many women, but he has love for only one man.

Gaywatch argues that when Kirk is split in half in "The Enemy Within", Good Kirk is Gay Kirk and Evil Kirk is Straight Kirk. I can actually see it. Evil Kirk is every toxic straight guy out there.

Meh. Spock is unbelievable in straight relationships because he's not interested in any romantic or sexual relationships except during Pon Farr, or the influence of the spores, etc.

And Kirk never showed any attraction for any man.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

The flaw in the argument that Captain Kirk is bisexual is that he's Captain Kirk. I think we would have all noticed!

Yeah I know, 60s TV wouldn't allow him to go full Captain Jack, but those limitations defined his character.

 

[eschaton]

Elnor seems like a character that was workshopped for awhile when Season 1 of PIC was in conceptual, but they did nothing with.

I mean, he effectively got his own introductory episode (Absolute Candor) which was pretty good. Then nothing much was done with him through the remainder of Season 1. Actually worse than that, since the conclusion of that episode had Picard explicitly asking him to not kill again without his okay, and then he kills again in The Impossible Box with Picard not batting an eyelash. There were a handful of scenes near the finale that suggested some conflict in worldviews between him and Narek, but nothing came of it. Worse, the whole idea of Elnor rebuilding his pseudo-paternal relationship with Picard went...nowhere.

Then, in Season 2, all of the sudden he's Raffi's foster son instead, due to stuff that happened off camera. But then he's dead for most of the season, resurrected in the finale, and then vanishes into the ether for Season 3.

Honestly, I do not have a high opinion of the acting chops of Evan Evagora. I think he's a pretty face with limited range, and it's pretty notable that since PIC he's not done much of anything. I do wonder if when they realized they made a mistake with casting they decided to heavily scale back his planned role in the season.

 

[Lord Garth]

Elnor is a character I wish they did more with. In Season 2, at least they outright replaced Soji with Kore. So we knew Soji wasn't part of the season, except for one scene in the first episode. With Elnor it's like he's in the season but not in it at the same time. If I were Evan Evagora, I wouldn't have been too thrilled with the demotion.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think I finally know where I rank all the seasons of live-action serialized New Trek. Someone's bound to find something in here controversial:

Picard Season 3
Picard Season 1
Discovery Season 1
Discovery Season 4
Discovery Season 5
Discovery Season 2
Discovery Season 3
Picard Season 2

With other New Trek series, I've only seen the episodes either once or zero times. So I either can't rank them, or it wouldn't be fair to rank them. Which is why I stuck with "live-action serialized". But there we are. Feel free to agree with me or tell me why I'm nuts.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

He had to return to Middle Earth.

"I have to go now. My Hobbits need me."
<Hand lifts Elnor out of the frame.>

 

[GhoulEddie74]

As long as you rank PIC Season 2 dead last I'm more than willing to forego any arguments over the rest.

 

[Frightscape One]

I think I finally know where I rank all the seasons of live-action serialized New Trek. Someone's bound to find something in here controversial:

Picard Season 3
Picard Season 1
Discovery Season 1
Discovery Season 4
Discovery Season 5
Discovery Season 2
Discovery Season 3
Picard Season 2

With other New Trek series, I've only seen the episodes either once or zero times. So I either can't rank them, or it wouldn't be fair to rank them. Which is why I stuck with "live-action serialized". But there we are. Feel free to agree with me or tell me why I'm nuts.

The only difference I'd make is how the DISCO seasons are ranked, so for me it's...

PICARD season 3
PICARD season 1
DISCO season 5
DISCO season 3
DISCO season 4
DISCO season 1
DISCO season 2
PICARD season 2

 

[1001001]

All of Picard is worse than all of Discovery.