What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Amasov, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I do too, and I already think both can co-exist, but I would do what I proposed to -- there's no way to say it but to say it -- to shut up the people who need it spelled out to them that both do co-exist by having it spelled out to them and addressed in Canon in some stupid two-parter like a certain other two-parter that was made in 2005.

    I'm sick of hearing about it, non-stop. It's the same reason I'd give these people an "Enterprise in the 25th Century!" series. Just give it to them, make them happy, and get it out of the way while the rest of us look forward to other things.

    I don't know. I feel reconciliatory. Between DSC and PIC, I got what I wanted, so I'm set. I'm one of the lucky ones and I know it. I'd give back a little for people who haven't gotten what they want.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2023 at 4:38 PM
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  2. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Robert Brown's takes on the two different versions of Lazarus are pretty solid and entertaining. I like them both. It's not Lazarus that reduces "The Alternative Factor(TOS)" to an incoherent mess, it's the script. It's just a severely inadequate and very poorly explained story.
     
  3. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yup. It clearly needs a black and white "this is different because...." in order to satiate the hype focused minutia crowd who remind me waayyyy too much of the inspector who had me move a wall a 1/4 of an inch after the roof was on.
     
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  4. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'll second you on that one; TAF is too often scorned for the wrong reasons
     
  5. Tallguy

    Tallguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I have no problem scorning it for the right reasons. It's the absolute worst episode that still has a decent ending and great final line. Giving it a few minutes more thought, the last scene were Kirk finds the not crazy Lazarus is positively haunting. They feel like the only two people in the universe. It's just not worth the episode to get there.

    No, Lazarus is not so bad. And if he is bad it's because the script is terrible. You never think "Aw, in the right hands this could have been a masterpiece." You also never think "Gee, I wish someone would fall off that cliff again..."
     
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  6. Richard S. Ta

    Richard S. Ta Commodore Commodore

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    They are not mutually exclusive. I think while I feel and while I feel, I think. The two are part of the same process, whether we are conscious of it or not.
     
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  7. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The thing I most remember about "The Alternative Factor" was Lazarus' constantly changing fake beard.
     
  8. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Is the plural “Lazarui?”
     
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  9. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Lazarii?

    Or Mr. Brown if you're nasty.
     
  10. Tallguy

    Tallguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    My answer is fully sometimes. Taking SNW as an example: I don't care about the ship. It's ugly and I wish it wasn't. But there is nothing in the show that says that this ship somehow looks different to the characters any more than Anson Mount (not ugly, probably) looks different than Jeffrey Hunter.

    Christine Chapel is a totally different character. But she's awesome. I mean, is there ANYONE who ever shipped TOS Spock and Chapel? (I mean, there's always somebody.) So I find myself thoroughly enjoying SNW but thinking much less of Spock in the context of TOS. And boy does it make the role of T'Pring even more thankless than it was from the get go.

    The Gorn make NO sense in the context of Arena. So why are they there? Why is it the Gorn? (And how the heck would even an alternate timeline explain THAT?) It's a cool thing in the story of SNW and sure, it's a fun way to get a little Alien into Star Trek. But they're not very much like the Gorn. So calling them that is nothing but downside. (Again, not making Spock look great in Arena. "Captain. I do seem to remember a time when people of this species slaughtered our chief engineer and tried to kill your brother... What was his name again? Lieutenant Uhura, do you recall the name of the Captain's brother? Neither do I. No matter, certainly.")
     
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  11. Gingerbread Demon

    Gingerbread Demon Stealer of all the cookies in time and space Premium Member

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    Thank you for the reply. I am glad you didn't take offense.

    I always got the impression Trek tried the make the Gorn more then they were some really fierce race that would give the other races a run for their money. They even get a mention in Discovery season 4 I think at the start as if they were some kind of badaass species.
     
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  12. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Nice callback to Janet Jackson. :techman:



    Regarding the Gorn and "ARENA"...

    They are called the Gorn Hegemony, which implies there are more Gorn. It's probably as simple as the Xindi... multiple types of the same species. I don't see a problem with it.

    And if I remember correctly, the Gorn were not mentioned by name until the Metron stopped both ships and took Kirk. Until that point, the Gorn ship was unidentified, so Spock wouldn't have been able to tell Kirk about the events in SNW.

    So far, I'm not seeing any contradiction with what was established in "ARENA".
     
  13. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, the only way Spock could have told Kirk is by interjecting during Kirk's conversation with the Metron. IMO SNW kind of improves the episodes, with regard to Uhura screaming in terror when Kirk is teleported away. Makes a lot more sense if she knows what (could) await him.

    Also Lower Decks already portrayed the Gorn as eating sentient beings, so Strange New Worls is only following canon in that regard.
     
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  14. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's a good point about Uhura's scream. That does retroactively put it in a better perspective.
     
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  15. Tallguy

    Tallguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe I have to watch it again. Oh. Darn. Watching a great TOS episode for nerdy research. Stop. Help. Police.

    Did it? I don't remember that part. (LD is super dense.)

    Re-watching the courtroom scene in The Voyage Home yesterday I realized that before the trial Spock, Sarek, and Christine are all hanging out together. Taking SNW into account it seemed very sweet. OR it's Spock hanging out with Mom and Dad from Yesteryear!

    Not controversial, I suppose. It was just something I noticed.
     
  16. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

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    SNW also adds interesting context to Spock's emotional development up to that episode. "All Those Who Wander" has some of the most emotional Spock moments in SNW, indirectly caused by the Gorn and now that he encounters them again he doesn't even flinch. (Of course because SNW hasn't been written at the point, but it's interesting to look at "Arena" through that new lens)
     
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  17. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

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    In "Veritas", the season 1 clip show episode, Rutherfold accidentally crashes a Gorn wedding, to which all the Gorn start eating him. This tweet has a pic.
     
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  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This is a nonstarter to me. To me, aliens that our heroes only have one encounter with cannot be indicative of the entirety of a race, any more than any one of us would indicative of the entire human race. How can we say what a Gorn would be like?
     
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  19. Commander Troi

    Commander Troi Geek Grrl Premium Member

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    Fixed that for you. :biggrin:
     
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  20. Tallguy

    Tallguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sure. But that's not almost a quote from City of Death!
     
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