What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[FredH]

Tell that to the current powers that be that changed the Klingons back to what they looked like prior to DISCO season 1.

Or the powers that be that "refitted" the NX-01 by adding an engineering hull after ENT went off the air.

Making zero change to the story in the first case, and adding it after the show ended so it didn’t matter anyway in the second? (With fans divided between liking and disliking the refit, at that.). That rather demonstrates the point.

Every, and I mean every change that fans think they made happen, happened because the production team and/or studio wanted it to happen. Which is why all the changes that fans wanted that the team/studio didn’t also want, didn’t happen, and are criticized by usually-still-watching fans to this day.

Fan discourse is fun; I’ve enjoyed it for 45 years. But that’s all it is, and all it ever was. Even the famous one-million-letters turned out to have Roddenberry in the background, apparently.

 

[CoveTom]

Making zero change to the story in the first case, and adding it after the show ended so it didn’t matter anyway in the second? (With fans divided between liking and disliking the refit, at that.). That rather demonstrates the point.

Every, and I mean every change that fans think they made happen, happened because the production team and/or studio wanted it to happen. Which is why all the changes that fans wanted that the team/studio didn’t also want, didn’t happen, and are criticized by usually-still-watching fans to this day.

Fan discourse is fun; I’ve enjoyed it for 45 years. But that’s all it is, and all it ever was. Even the famous one-million-letters turned out to have Roddenberry in the background, apparently.

That's an interesting pretzel of logic. If the production team makes a change that fans have been asking for, they didn't make it because of the fans, they made it because that's what they really wanted anyway. And because the production team doesn't make every single change the fans want, that proves they don't ever listen to fan opinions. Interesting. Wrong, but interesting.

Many members of the production team, from Gene Roddenberry and his voluminous written correspondence to Ron Moore on the AOL message boards to Terry Matalas on X, have not only been aware of fan opinions but have regularly interacted with fans. The idea that they never take fan input into account is ludicrous. Of course they do. Not always and not in every case. And they shouldn't be running a show based on fan desires, because fans often don't know what they really want.

But to dismiss all fan input and say that producers have never changed course in response to fan opinion? That's just not true, for Star Trek or for any other long-running property.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Well, they did come up with an original, new theme, they just decided not to use it.

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Jessie Gender uses this theme with her Star Trek videos.

 

[CoveTom]

Jessie Gender uses this theme with her Star Trek videos.

That theme has always given me real seaQuest DSV vibes.

 

[Jayson1]

They should have went with this one.

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[Finn]

I think Jadzia Dax's promotion to Lieutenant Commander felt pretty forced, unearned.

When was she promoted again?

 

[cooleddie74]

Benjamin was promoted to Captain at the very end of Season 3. Was she promoted around the same time?

 

[suarezguy]

Start of Season 4. I mostly thought it felt unearned given her going rogue for vengeance about year and half before in "Blood Oath" and quickly deciding to abandon Starfleet about year before in "Meridian".

 

[fireproof78]

Controversial opinion: Fan opinions don’t matter, and never did. That includes this one.

I generally agree with this idea. I have no doubt that some regard is given but it's as much as other business ideas are given from customers. The goal is to keep the customers engaged and that's the extent of it from the studio side. Individual producers might take some information but I don't think it guides most of the story decision.

 

[The Wormhole]

Start of Season 4. I mostly thought it felt unearned given her going rogue for vengeance about year and half before in "Blood Oath" and quickly deciding to abandon Starfleet about year before in "Meridian".

Sisko violated a direct order from an Admiral and took the Defiant into the Gamma Quadrant in The Die is Cast. What'd that Admiral tell him afterwards? "Do something like that again, we'll court martial you or promote you." And indeed, a few months later, Sisko was promoted.

Starfleet really is rather lenient on the whole disobeying orders thing.

 

[cooleddie74]

I mean, Kirk stole his old ship and violated nine different Starfleet regulations and while, yes, he was demoted back to Captain he was still given a new Enterprise and the Federation Council and UFP President praised and applauded his actions that saved Earth. For a perpetual rulebreaker and troublemaker he sure got "punished" a lot.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Starfleet really is rather lenient on the whole disobeying orders thing.

They seem to forgive the transgression if you manage to Save Earth, History, Planets, Societies, etc.

 

[fireproof78]

It's rather ridiculous.

 

[Shawnster]

Controversial opinion: Fan opinions don’t matter, and never did. That includes this one.

NORMAN: You say you are lying, but if everything you say is a lie then you are telling the truth, but you cannot tell the truth because everything you say is a lie. You lie. You tell the truth. But you cannot for. Illogical! Illogical! Please explain.
(Smoke comes out of Norman's head.)
NORMAN: You are human. Only humans can explain their behaviour. Please explain.
KIRK: I am not programmed to respond in that area.

 

[1001001]

I mean, Kirk stole his old ship and violated nine different Starfleet regulations and while, yes, he was demoted back to Captain he was still given a new Enterprise and the Federation Council and UFP President praised and applauded his actions that saved Earth. For a perpetual rulebreaker and troublemaker he sure got "punished" a lot.

That scene was perfect.

We forgive everything but disobeying orders.

And by broken in rank, it just so happened that he was put in charge of the Enterprise again.

*chef’s kiss*

 

[FredH]

That's an interesting pretzel of logic. If the production team makes a change that fans have been asking for, they didn't make it because of the fans, they made it because that's what they really wanted anyway. And because the production team doesn't make every single change the fans want, that proves they don't ever listen to fan opinions. Interesting. Wrong, but interesting.

Many members of the production team, from Gene Roddenberry and his voluminous written correspondence to Ron Moore on the AOL message boards to Terry Matalas on X, have not only been aware of fan opinions but have regularly interacted with fans. The idea that they never take fan input into account is ludicrous. Of course they do. Not always and not in every case. And they shouldn't be running a show based on fan desires, because fans often don't know what they really want.

But to dismiss all fan input and say that producers have never changed course in response to fan opinion? That's just not true, for Star Trek or for any other long-running property.

Yes, the producers do what they want, when they want, and only what they or the studio want — what a strange, confusing pretzel of logic! It’s entirely true that when that actually coincides with what certain louder online fans also want, the latter will take credit for it — even as other things they want mysteriously continue to not happen.

Sure, Roddenberry & Moore & Matalas interacted with fans… but not once did they make a change because fans asked for it. Moore’s interaction with intransigent BSG fans — and the way their whole “Galactica In Name Only” mantra finally became the source of the name of Gina, the horribly punished and abused Six iteration on Pegasus — is both legendary and instructive here. And Matalas, sure, asked fans to push for Legacy, and many did — and look how much studio action resulted.

Fan interaction happens all the time — almost all of it as a subtle or not-so-subtle method of marketing, buttering up the fandom and all. Fan input, that changes the product in any significant way? It’s pretty to think so.

 

[CoveTom]

Sure, Roddenberry & Moore & Matalas interacted with fans… but not once did they make a change because fans asked for it.

How do you know?

 

[The Wormhole]

Well, Roddenberry certainly didn't. He once actually said "Star Trek would be shit if we listened to the fans."
Moore never would have been in a position to make any changes in reaction to fan wishes on Star Trek. And if he had listened to the fans on BSG, it would not have ended the way it did.
Likewise, because Picard seasons 2 and 3 were filmed back to back, Matalas never had time to react to fan input.

 

[Tallguy]

And if he had listened to the fans on BSG, it would not have ended the way it did.

Are you arguing for or against? Of course if Moore had listened to Moore it would never have started the way that it did either.

If only season 4 Moore had listened to season 1 Moore.

For a perpetual rulebreaker and troublemaker he sure got "punished" a lot.

Someone rather credibly demolished the "Kirk was a rampaging womanizer" trope with some nice charts one time.

Has anyone ever broken down how many times Kirk "ignored the rules and did what he wanted"?

Obviously Star Trek III would feature rather prominently.

 

[suarezguy]

Fan input, that changes the product in any significant way? It’s pretty to think so.

Making Spock not really dead, hinting that he may return (against the preference of Meyer), and then actually bringing him back the next film seems one time it had major change impact.