What Are the Differences Between TMP's SLV and DE?

[Maurice]

While the SLV has a good amount of deleted material, I've always been left with wanting more from the plethora of home video releases. I'd like to see some of the following included in the future...

Some of the things you cite may not exist or have been filmed, even if you've seen them in a script. Since TMP's script was being endlessly rewritten to know what was actually shot you'd have to refer to a draft from the end of principle photography, not before or during.

 

[Nightowl1701]

The security guard, Ilia in Engineering and at least most of the Memory Wall sequence (if only in a rough no-fx assembly) was definitely shot.

And since Robert Wise was able to go back to the original negatives to reinsert one shot into the DE (the shot of Ilia abandoning her post to aid the injured Chekov), I can only assume/hope the above is somewhere in the Paramount vaults as well.

 

[urbandefault]

I have the DVD 10 movie box set, so which version do I have? All the cut lines mentioned previously are there, except the ten foot tall crew one that I don't remember ever hearing. :/

The Director's Edition, I believe. It was the only version released on DVD up until recently. Should have a gold spine. If it doesn't have the gold spine, it is the theatrical edition.

That "recently" was 2009, five years ago! I know, I know ... time flies by just like that. And we're old farts before we even know it.

I think the best way to tell which version you have is to check the scene when Kirk first appears the bridge. When he leaves and the turbolift doors are closing, the SLV and the DE continue with a scene on the bridge. An Ensign asks about Decker, reminding everyone that has been with the ship every minute for the refitting process. Then Uhura responds with something like "our chances of coming back in one piece may have just doubled". The Theatrical version doesn't have that scene.

My version has that scene. Thanks.

 

[Maab]

And since Robert Wise was able to go back to the original negatives to reinsert one shot into the DE (the shot of Ilia abandoning her post to aid the injured Chekov), I can only assume/hope the above is somewhere in the Paramount vaults as well.

While they were assembling the director's edition DVD I remember reading somewhere that the staff had access to all the boxes of films stored in Paramount Archives.
As we all know, they found some test footage for the Memory Wall scene that were included as extras. So, there would have been no reason not to include other materials if they had them.
I strongly believe that there is nothing else in Paramount archives beyond what was included in that edition.

Best,
Maab

Memory Wall Picture Collection

 

[Hober Mallow]

There's a lot I don't like about the DE, but I was happy they got rid of the annoying "EE-MER-GEN-CEE! A-LERT! EE-MER-GEN-CEE! A-LERT! EE-MER-GEN-CEE! ALER-T! EE..."

 

[Maurice]

The security guard, Ilia in Engineering and at least most of the Memory Wall sequence (if only in a rough no-fx assembly) was definitely shot...

I was referring to things like alternate versions of the officer's lounge scene, Kirk's "casualties" bit at the end, and so forth. Dialog was being changed all over the place, especially in the 3rd act.

 

[Firebird]

The security guard, Ilia in Engineering and at least most of the Memory Wall sequence (if only in a rough no-fx assembly) was definitely shot...

I was referring to things like alternate versions of the officer's lounge scene, Kirk's "casualties" bit at the end, and so forth. Dialog was being changed all over the place, especially in the 3rd act.

I'll agree that the version in the script was likely rewritten, since the pages I've got for it are dated 8/18/78, only a week into principal photography.

The "casualties" line, however, I'm not so sure. Since they'd already filmed the security guard getting zapped by the probe, it would've been odd to eliminate that line during the shoot. Looking at the scene itself in the movie, it kinda looks like a reshoot to me. The lighting is a little off from the rest of that final bridge scene. Additionally, the revisions I've got for that scene are from 11/29/78, and it largely plays exactly the same as the finished film.

You ain't kidding about the 3rd act being changed a lot, Maurice. Between all the drafts and revisions I've got, there's at least 3 distinct different versions written for the shooting script alone, as well as a 3rd act breakdown from mid-September '78. It was damn near impossible for Livingston & Roddenberry to land this thing in a way that pleased them both.

 

[Indysolo]

AFAIK, Goldsmith wasn't a big name back then. Wise was. (Hence, Goldsmith would have been the one with balls if he went against Wise's decision).

Other movie music guru's feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

By the time of TMP, Goldsmith had scored numerous famous film scores (e.g., The Sand Pebbles, Patton, Chinatown; all of these were Oscar-nominated) and had won an Academy Award (The Omen). That's just about as big as it gets.

Thank you, my head was about to explode reading that first comment.

Neil

 

[mos6507]

AFAIK, Goldsmith wasn't a big name back then. Wise was. (Hence, Goldsmith would have been the one with balls if he went against Wise's decision).

Other movie music guru's feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

By the time of TMP, Goldsmith had scored numerous famous film scores (e.g., The Sand Pebbles, Patton, Chinatown; all of these were Oscar-nominated) and had won an Academy Award (The Omen). That's just about as big as it gets.

No listing of his pre-TMP scores would be complete without mentioning Planet of the Apes. Some of the unusual instrumentation in that film seems to lead to similarly unusual treatments in TMP (Blaster Beam, etc...)

As far as other speculation as to various decisions made during the production, the book about TMP that is about to be shipped should (I hope) answer many of them.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

AFAIK, Goldsmith wasn't a big name back then. Wise was. (Hence, Goldsmith would have been the one with balls if he went against Wise's decision).

Other movie music guru's feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

By the time of TMP, Goldsmith had scored numerous famous film scores (e.g., The Sand Pebbles, Patton, Chinatown; all of these were Oscar-nominated) and had won an Academy Award (The Omen). That's just about as big as it gets.

No listing of his pre-TMP scores would be complete without mentioning Planet of the Apes. Some of the unusual instrumentation in that film seems to lead to similarly unusual treatments in TMP (Blaster Beam, etc...)

As far as other speculation as to various decisions made during the production, the book about TMP that is about to be shipped should (I hope) answer many of them.

I think my mind was elsewhere when trying to remember Goldsmith's older scores.

I forgot about his theme for "Planet of the Apes" (eerie) as well as his theme for "Alien" (also eerie!)

 

[Lance]

The point is, I don't think it was about who had the biggest pecker. Wise was a well respected movie director, while Goldsmith had a good rep as a composer. But movies are a collaborative medium, and when the director asks you to take another pass at something then that's what you go and do. AFAICR Goldsmith actually agreed that it wasn't right the first time around.

 

[RookieBatman]

Here's something random; I turned on my TV to record something else, and TMP just happened to be playing. Not on Syfy or some random cable channel, either; it was on a network, in HD. I never expected to see TMP on a network these days. But it does raise the question, which version of TMP do they show on TV now? I know the SLV was originally made for TV airings, but this was in HD, so it seems unlikely that it would be the SLV. I guess the theatrical version is the only one that's been made HD-ready, unless they remastered one specifically for TV airings, which seems unlikely given TMP's limited appeal. So I guess this one probably was the theatrical version (which makes me feel a lot better about missing it).

 

[urbandefault]

The Director's Edition, I believe. It was the only version released on DVD up until recently. Should have a gold spine. If it doesn't have the gold spine, it is the theatrical edition.

That "recently" was 2009, five years ago! I know, I know ... time flies by just like that. And we're old farts before we even know it.

I think the best way to tell which version you have is to check the scene when Kirk first appears the bridge. When he leaves and the turbolift doors are closing, the SLV and the DE continue with a scene on the bridge. An Ensign asks about Decker, reminding everyone that has been with the ship every minute for the refitting process. Then Uhura responds with something like "our chances of coming back in one piece may have just doubled". The Theatrical version doesn't have that scene.

My version has that scene. Thanks.

I dug out the box set and sure enough, it's the DE.

This version feels like it moves a little better than what I remember in the theater in '79. Some scenes then seemed to drag on forever.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There's a lot I don't like about the DE, but I was happy they got rid of the annoying "EE-MER-GEN-CEE! A-LERT! EE-MER-GEN-CEE! A-LERT! EE-MER-GEN-CEE! ALER-T! EE..."

In the original versions, it took me awhile to realize that the Epsilon 9 computer voice was actually translating the words spoken by the Klingon captain ("Intruder unidentified. Believed luminescent cloud to be enormous power field surrounding alien vessel. Imperial Klingon Cruiser Amar continuing to attack").

(The DE omits this voice, and the computer display that transcribes those lines, replacing the latter with an interior shot of the Amar.)

 

[CorporalCaptain]

There's a lot I don't like about the DE, but I was happy they got rid of the annoying "EE-MER-GEN-CEE! A-LERT! EE-MER-GEN-CEE! A-LERT! EE-MER-GEN-CEE! ALER-T! EE..."

In the original versions, it took me awhile to realize that the Epsilon 9 computer voice was actually translating the words spoken by the Klingon captain ("Intruder unidentified. Believed luminescent cloud to be enormous power field surrounding alien vessel. Imperial Klingon Cruiser Amar continuing to attack").

(The DE omits this voice, and the computer display that transcribes those lines, replacing the latter with an interior shot of the Amar.)

The universal translator there is one of the places where the computer voice is sorely missed in the DE IMO. I thought it added verisimilitude to that part of the film, and plus it was just really damn cool.

As for the other places of the computer voice, I never had a problem with them, beyond the fact that they should have cut all redundant repetitions. Beyond not having a problem with it, I thought the computer voice added texture that was viscerally interesting in an otherwise largely bland environment. I've always considered it a part of TMP's unique vision of the future, that's basically set apart from all of the other films. It was nice to hear some of the sound effects reused in TFF, though.

 

[RyanKCR]

There's a lot I don't like about the DE, but I was happy they got rid of the annoying "EE-MER-GEN-CEE! A-LERT! EE-MER-GEN-CEE! A-LERT! EE-MER-GEN-CEE! ALER-T! EE..."

In the original versions, it took me awhile to realize that the Epsilon 9 computer voice was actually translating the words spoken by the Klingon captain ("Intruder unidentified. Believed luminescent cloud to be enormous power field surrounding alien vessel. Imperial Klingon Cruiser Amar continuing to attack").

(The DE omits this voice, and the computer display that transcribes those lines, replacing the latter with an interior shot of the Amar.)

The universal translator there is one of the places where the computer voice is sorely missed in the DE IMO. I thought it added verisimilitude to that part of the film, and plus it was just really damn cool.

As for the other places of the computer voice, I never had a problem with them, beyond the fact that they should have cut all redundant repetitions. Beyond not having a problem with it, I thought the computer voice added texture that was viscerally interesting in an otherwise largely bland environment. I've always considered it a part of TMP's unique vision of the future, that's basically set apart from all of the other films. It was nice to hear some of the sound effects reused in TFF, though.

The computer voice and the original klaxon was a big part of what made TMP my favorite sci-fi movie. I also miss the engineering announcement of an auxiliary power test.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I also miss the engineering announcement of an auxiliary power test.

Absolutely. That's relevant to the plot, I think, too, the implication being that the test may have contributed to the transporter accident.

 

[drt]

I dug out the box set and sure enough, it's the DE.

This version feels like it moves a little better than what I remember in the theater in '79. Some scenes then seemed to drag on forever.

When I got the bluray, I was actually surprised that the pacing of the theatrical cut wasn't that bad. Since the SLV version on VHS was probably how most people watched TMP for nearly 20 years (until the DVD release of the DE), I think a lot of the SLV's pacing issues get misattributed to the theatrical cut.

 

[urbandefault]

I don't think I've seen the SLV. I have the DE as part of the 10 movie box set.

Before I got that, I don't know how many years it had been since I'd seen TMP. Maybe on TV with commercials, maybe on HBO or Showtime, maybe not. I saw the theatrical cut in its original release in 1979, and what I remember from then is that it seemed to just plod along.

The DE seems much tighter than the original release, but that might just be my memory playing tricks on me.

 

[drt]

Sorry, even though I quoted you, I wasn't calling your memory out in particular - it was just a thought I had regarding the pacing of TMP.