What Are the Differences Between TMP's SLV and DE?

[RookieBatman]

I agree with the majority opinion here the theatrical version of TMP is pretty bad. Some years ago, however, I watched the SLV and the Director's Edition, and I really enjoyed both of them (probably because they added back a lot of good character moments that were taken out of the theatrical cut).

Now I want to watch TMP again, but I can't decide which version to watch (the last time, I was a much more hardcore Trekkie, so I just watched both recut versions). I have no problem with length or getting bored in the course of the movie, so I'm kinda drawn to SLV's "kitchen sink" editing philosophy, but on the other hand, VHS (and isn't it Pan-and-Scan as well?). Like I said, the whole thing that elevates these from the theatrical cut is the character moments, so I was curious about what scenes were in the SLV that aren't in the DE. (I don't mean like establishing shots or slightly longer footage of a fight scene or something; feel free to limit it to times when people are actually talking.)

Thank you!

ETA: I haven't been here in literally four years, and didn't even realize the avatar I had when I left was TMP-themed. Funny coincidence.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There's the full "argument" scene between McCoy and Kirk. After Kirk and Decker talk about why Decker countermanded Kirk's phaser order, McCoy argues with Kirk about it. In the SLV, the full scene is shown. But the DE edits out the beginning of it:

McCoy: And another thing...
Kirk: Get out of here, Bones.
McCoy: As ship's doctor, I am now discussing the subject...of *command fitness*.

I don't know if the original theatrical cut does this, but I know the DE does: it cuts straight to the point where Kirk says "Make your point, Doctor" and Bones replies "The point is that it's you who's competing". And what's more, that part is very awkwardly overdubbed.

I always wondered why the DE (and possibly theatrical cut) did that. The full version of that scene doesn't add too much time to the film, and it's much more professionally edited. What's more, it just sounds better. I see no point to editing it out.

 

[Maurice]

There's the full "argument" scene between McCoy and Kirk. After Kirk and Decker talk about why Decker countermanded Kirk's phaser order, McCoy argues with Kirk about it. In the SLV, the full scene is shown. But the DE edits out the beginning of it:

McCoy: And another thing...
Kirk: Get out of here, Bones.
McCoy: As ship's doctor, I am now discussing the subject...of *command fitness*.

I don't know if the original theatrical cut does this, but I know the DE does: it cuts straight to the point where Kirk says "Make your point, Doctor" and Bones replies "The point is that it's you who's competing". And what's more, that part is very awkwardly overdubbed.

I always wondered why the DE (and possibly theatrical cut) did that. The full version of that scene doesn't add too much time to the film, and it's much more professionally edited. What's more, it just sounds better. I see no point to editing it out.

Only the SLV has that exchange. Frankly, it's unnecessary. The previous scene with in the quarters ends with, "He may be right, Jim," and cutting in to "Make your point, Doctor," is a more direct dialog connection than, "And another thing..."

 

[Harvey]

This website has a comparison between the special longer version and the theatrical cut, and the theatrical cut and the director's edition, but, alas, not a comparison between the theatrical cut and the director's edition.

Still, I think those two pages will give you some idea what you're in for.

 

[Leto_II]

While I generally tend to prefer the slightly-tighter editing of the Director's Edition, one trim that makes absolutely no sense to me is the deletion of Kirk's second, quick, "...Viewer OFF!!" during the Rec Deck Epsilon IX scene.

For a movie supposedly in desperate need of further teaspoons of human characterization, removing this additional bit is perplexing, since it gave Kirk a sense of raw, frustrated spontaneity right at that moment.

Every time I watch that version of the film, I now experience this weird sort of phantom-limb syndrome for a line that is no longer there.

 

[BillJ]

I want the SLV on Blu-ray!

 

[RookieBatman]

There's the full "argument" scene between McCoy and Kirk. After Kirk and Decker talk about why Decker countermanded Kirk's phaser order, McCoy argues with Kirk about it. In the SLV, the full scene is shown. But the DE edits out the beginning of it.

While I generally tend to prefer the slightly-tighter editing of the Director's Edition, one trim that makes absolutely no sense to me is the deletion of Kirk's second, quick, "...Viewer OFF!!" during the Rec Deck Epsilon IX scene.

It's the little things like that which make me like the edit of the SLV more, but it obviously does have some clear technical limitations.

 

[Lance]

There's the full "argument" scene between McCoy and Kirk. After Kirk and Decker talk about why Decker countermanded Kirk's phaser order, McCoy argues with Kirk about it. In the SLV, the full scene is shown. But the DE edits out the beginning of it:

McCoy: And another thing...
Kirk: Get out of here, Bones.
McCoy: As ship's doctor, I am now discussing the subject...of *command fitness*.

I don't know if the original theatrical cut does this, but I know the DE does: it cuts straight to the point where Kirk says "Make your point, Doctor" and Bones replies "The point is that it's you who's competing". And what's more, that part is very awkwardly overdubbed.

I always wondered why the DE (and possibly theatrical cut) did that. The full version of that scene doesn't add too much time to the film, and it's much more professionally edited. What's more, it just sounds better. I see no point to editing it out.

Only the SLV has that exchange. Frankly, it's unnecessary. The previous scene with in the quarters ends with, "He may be right, Jim," and cutting in to "Make your point, Doctor," is a more direct dialog connection than, "And another thing..."

On the other hand, the inference of McCoy giving Kirk both barrels in the interim, while Kirk idly ignores him (because he's *used* to Bones going off on one like this), is a nice little character touch between the two -- and fully appropriate.

While I generally tend to prefer the slightly-tighter editing of the Director's Edition, one trim that makes absolutely no sense to me is the deletion of Kirk's second, quick, "...Viewer OFF!!" during the Rec Deck Epsilon IX scene.

For a movie supposedly in desperate need of further teaspoons of human characterization, removing this additional bit is perplexing, since it gave Kirk a sense of raw, frustrated spontaneity right at that moment.

Every time I watch that version of the film, I now experience this weird sort of phantom-limb syndrome for a line that is no longer there.

Yeah, me too. I know all the beats so well that even the slightest difference is startling.

But then, I'm of the view that the theatrical cut is fine. I like all versions of the movie, but I don't see anything intrinsically "wrong" with any of them. They're just alternatives.

 

[Vger23]

This website has a comparison between the special longer version and the theatrical cut, and the theatrical cut and the director's edition, but, alas, not a comparison between the theatrical cut and the director's edition.

Still, I think those two pages will give you some idea what you're in for.

I tried reading this, and it's worse Engrish than Zero Wing. The only thing I could think of as I was trying to decipher the awful English translation was:

"All your base are belong to us! Someone set up us the bomb!"

 

[RookieBatman]

This website has a comparison between the special longer version and the theatrical cut, and the theatrical cut and the director's edition, but, alas, not a comparison between the theatrical cut and the director's edition.

Still, I think those two pages will give you some idea what you're in for.

I tried reading this, and it's worse Engrish than Zero Wing. The only thing I could think of as I was trying to decipher the awful English translation was:

"All your base are belong to us! Someone set up us the bomb!"

Did you notice too how the screencaps for the DE had German subtitles? That's very telling.

 

[Harvey]

I did notice a bit about "carbonite units."

It's the best page I could find comparing the two without looking very hard, though.

 

[RyanKCR]

Decker's line about how we all create god in our own image is missing from the DE. To me that is a key line to the film.

I did NOT like the new sound mix. Too many beeps and chirps and changes to existing sounds. Gives the movie a campy feel.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

This website has a comparison between the special longer version and the theatrical cut, and the theatrical cut and the director's edition, but, alas, not a comparison between the theatrical cut and the director's edition.

Still, I think those two pages will give you some idea what you're in for.

I tried reading this, and it's worse Engrish than Zero Wing. The only thing I could think of as I was trying to decipher the awful English translation was:

"All your base are belong to us! Someone set up us the bomb!"

Did you notice too how the screencaps for the DE had German subtitles? That's very telling.

What you say!

 

[Indysolo]

Decker's line about how we all create god in our own image is missing from the DE. To me that is a key line to the film

That line wasn't in the theatrical cut either.

Neil

 

[SchwEnt]

All the SLV lines...

"We all create God in our own image"
"Or a crew of a thousand ten miles tall"
"Viewer OFF!"
"Our chances of returning from this mission in one piece may have just doubled"
and more.

Those parts are very integral to TMP. To me, they're maybe even more important than any updated FX or V'Ger cloud editing.

 

[RookieBatman]

All the SLV lines...

"We all create God in our own image"
"Or a crew of a thousand ten miles tall"
"Viewer OFF!"
"Our chances of returning from this mission in one piece may have just doubled"
and more.

Those parts are very integral to TMP. To me, they're maybe even more important than any updated FX or V'Ger cloud editing.

I agree. To me, the biggest problem with the theatrical cut wasn't the pacing so much as the lack of characterization. When you're engaged in the characters, you don't mind the excessive amount of time they spend staring at the viewscreen, because when you're engaged, it just builds the tension (for me, anyway).

Like I said before, when I was a hardcore Trekkie, I watched the SLV and the DE almost back to back, and thought they were both great. Afterwards, I went online and read about what scenes were cut from the theatrical version, and it was basically all of the character moments that I loved. Knowing that, I completely understand why people think the movie is total crap as originally cut.

 

[Lance]

YMMV, but there are things in the DE that I didn't find as good as the SLV version though. In some ways the DE is actually more of a middle ground between both versions. Certain scenes do skew more towards the SLV, but others skew more towards the theatrical cut, chopping out bits of the SLV that I love.

Ultimately I love all three versions, for different things contained therein. It's one of those movies I just can't say "X version is the Definitive cut".

 

[One Lucky Red Shirt]

I grew up watching the SLV. i couldnt tell u how many times i watched it on the living.room tv on mono. U remember back in the 80s when all u had was 1 tv in the house? Lol. The fueds with my sisters over the tv. My.mom had a tv too in her bedroom but that was it.

I agree with the other posts. The other versions took out much of the characters moments. The SLV had it all. I highly recommend watching that version. I bought the DE dvd when it came out. Loved the special festures but i was very disappointed with everything they cut out. The first scene with kirk and McCoy talking with Spock was so awful with that nacelle fx added in the back window. I was like wtf. The only new.fx i loved was.Vulcan and the ending with Vger. Thats it.

Stick to the SLV. It needs to come out on blu ray. 'Nuff said.

 

[RookieBatman]

Stick to the SLV. It needs to come out on blu ray. 'Nuff said.

I was Googling and came across a fanedit of TMP that purports to be the same cut as the SLV, but in widescreen (and presumably higher definition). Unfortunately, like most fan-edits, good luck finding it. I don't even see how there could be any real copyright-infringement issues there, because anyone who cares enough to acquire a fan-made re-edit of Star Trek: The Motion Picture probably owns multiple official copies anyway. Shame this one seems to be lost to everyone but Usenet.

 

[ozzfloyd]

I find that TMP just drags way too much to keep me engaged. It has its moments of course and it's a beautiful looking film. For the hell of it I tried doing a re-cut of the film, trying to take out a lot of the redundant FX shots and long moments of silence. Turned out to be 105 minutes, same run time as TSFS. This was all just for mt personal amusement of course. :-)