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what am I seeing?

On the Vazquez Rocks topic though, is the nice glade and lake as seen in Shore Leave actually near Vazquez Rocks, as there are some rocky things in the distance, as seen when Kirk starts chasing Finnegan??
Much of the episode, including the lake and glade scenes, was shot a few miles away from Vasquez Rocks at a filming ranch then known as Africa, U.S.A., near Acton, California. (The property suffered heavy damage by flooding in 1969 and closed as a filming ranch, but was later acquired by Tippi Hedren and now exists as the Shambala Preserve. You can see the location of Vasquez Rocks Park to the northwest on this map.)

I'm not sure which rocks you mean when Kirk starts chasing Finnegan (the entire area is quite rugged and full of rocky outcroppings) but the scene shifts pretty quickly to the Vasquez Rocks site, where Kirk "finally beats the tar out of Finnegan".
 
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I think Vazquez Rocks should be Star Trek's analog to Douglas Adams' "Gin and Tonic"...
...it's ubiquitous throughout the entire universe.
 
But didn't Cisco mistakenly say that he wanted to ask Kirk about fighting the Gorn on Cestus 3? If the producers of Arena had the hindsight to have predicted this glaring error, then it would have saved them having to matte in a crumpled up grocery bag!

Sisko may have been referring to the firefight on Cestus 3 between Kirk (and his landing party) and the Gorn soldiers who lured them there and ambushed them upon their arrival. In that sense, Kirk did fight the Gorn (plural) on Cestus 3.

Granted, though, it was a pretty brief fight, with Kirk's side only firing one salvo. Sisko may have been conflating that with the later battle on the Metron asteroid.

And don't you need foresight to predict things, not hindsight? Or are you proposing a model of circular time?
 
I think Vazquez Rocks should be Star Trek's analog to Douglas Adams' "Gin and Tonic"...
...it's ubiquitous throughout the entire universe.
Heh. I seem to recall reading a hypothesis to that effect once. It may have been tied to the Preservers and a couple of other Trek tropes, but it's a bit hazy in memory at this point.
 
I think Vazquez Rocks should be Star Trek's analog to Douglas Adams' "Gin and Tonic"...
...it's ubiquitous throughout the entire universe.

...or, as in the Babylon Five universe, nearly every sapient species has their equivalent of "Swedish meatballs". If the mystery of that phenomena were ever solved, it would shatter people's minds.

On a more mundane note, the Vasquez Rocks are for Trek what rock quarries were for the "classic" Doctor Who serials. Me, I always liked the Trona Pinnacles used for the Liedecker imiature shots of the Jupiter II when it first crashed. That sequence holds up amazingly well even today, mainly because they filmed the model on location, using the same light for all elements (the terrain, the smoke, the saucer, etc.), no optical overlays.

Sincerely,

Bill
 
^^Yeah, those Jupiter 2 crash shots are classic.

A while back, there was an animated SF comedy/adventure show called Captain Simian and the Space Monkeys, with Babylon 5's Jerry Doyle as the hero and Michael Dorn as the villain. It was loaded with SF in-jokes, and one recurring gag was that there was a whole series of numbered "Vasquez" planets, all of which had the same craggy, angular outcroppings dominating their terrain.
 
Looking just west a couple of miles of Vasquez Rocks on Google maps down highway 14 there is something called "Lang" right on the freeway, doesn't seem to be any sort of town. Coincidence?
Link
Fixed your link.

Looking at the map, there's actually a pretty large residential neighborhood there, probably for people commuting into Palmdale/Lancaster or to the San Fernando Valley. As far as the name goes, that's a nice coincidence, but that's about all. The name has been attached to that location at least since it became a railroad stop in 1876; they had their own "golden spike" ceremony on September 5 of that year to mark the joining of rail lines which effectively connected Los Angeles with the rest of the country.

http://www.scvhistory.com/scvhistory/golden-spike-centennial-best.htm
 
Looking just west a couple of miles of Vasquez Rocks on Google maps down highway 14 there is something called "Lang" right on the freeway, doesn't seem to be any sort of town. Coincidence?
Link
Fixed your link.

Looking at the map, there's actually a pretty large residential neighborhood there, probably for people commuting into Palmdale/Lancaster or to the San Fernando Valley. As far as the name goes, that's a nice coincidence, but that's about all. The name has been attached to that location at least since it became a railroad stop in 1876; they had their own "golden spike" ceremony on September 5 of that year to mark the joining of rail lines which effectively connected Los Angeles with the rest of the country.

http://www.scvhistory.com/scvhistory/golden-spike-centennial-best.htm

Thanks for the link..real cool..

Rob
 
Looking just west a couple of miles of Vasquez Rocks on Google maps down highway 14 there is something called "Lang" right on the freeway, doesn't seem to be any sort of town. Coincidence?
Link
Fixed your link.

Looking at the map, there's actually a pretty large residential neighborhood there, probably for people commuting into Palmdale/Lancaster or to the San Fernando Valley. As far as the name goes, that's a nice coincidence, but that's about all. The name has been attached to that location at least since it became a railroad stop in 1876; they had their own "golden spike" ceremony on September 5 of that year to mark the joining of rail lines which effectively connected Los Angeles with the rest of the country.

http://www.scvhistory.com/scvhistory/golden-spike-centennial-best.htm

In all likelihood, it's probably where they got the name of the character, essentially a bit of an inside joke.

As for the Vasquez Rocks themselves, they're not unlike the Boulder Flatirons, albeit not quite as big as the Flatirons.

In other words, it's not exactly a rare type of rock formation.

BTW, does anybody else remember an episode of Bonanza where Little Joe got his rifle stuck up on top of the hogback of that formation (I think some bad guy threw it up there) and Joe couldn't climb up and get it because it turns out he's afraid of heights?

It's always a little weird watching those rocks show up on another show, especially a show that's older that Star Trek.
 
Looking just west a couple of miles of Vasquez Rocks on Google maps down highway 14 there is something called "Lang" right on the freeway, doesn't seem to be any sort of town. Coincidence?
Link
Fixed your link.

Looking at the map, there's actually a pretty large residential neighborhood there, probably for people commuting into Palmdale/Lancaster or to the San Fernando Valley. As far as the name goes, that's a nice coincidence, but that's about all. The name has been attached to that location at least since it became a railroad stop in 1876; they had their own "golden spike" ceremony on September 5 of that year to mark the joining of rail lines which effectively connected Los Angeles with the rest of the country.

http://www.scvhistory.com/scvhistory/golden-spike-centennial-best.htm

In all likelihood, it's probably where they got the name of the character, essentially a bit of an inside joke.
It's possible, I suppose, but when you consider that the highway they would have used in getting to the location bypasses Lang altogether, and that Lang is not even now identified by name on the freeway exit signs (which read "Soledad Canyon Road" and "Soledad Canyon" only, going in both directions) it doesn't seem very likely.

As for the Vasquez Rocks themselves, they're not unlike the Boulder Flatirons, albeit not quite as big as the Flatirons.

In other words, it's not exactly a rare type of rock formation.
Yes, I mentioned already upthread that the entire area is full of similar rock outcroppings (if not all as picturesque as Vasquez Rocks) and I grew up with a geologist in the house, so I'm aware of the frequency of occurrence of such formations, as well as the process which caused them to be that way.

BTW, does anybody else remember an episode of Bonanza where Little Joe got his rifle stuck up on top of the hogback of that formation (I think some bad guy threw it up there) and Joe couldn't climb up and get it because it turns out he's afraid of heights?
I think I have a vague recollection of that one, but I was never a regular watcher of the show. You might find something about it on the Bonanza fan page about the site to which I linked earlier.
 
Just spent a very enjoyable few minutes scanning that site, thanks to whoever posted it first (it's late and I'm too lazy to look it up).

As for the Lang bit, all that'd be required is for someone to either look at a map or have some historical knowledge of the area, either one of which is quite possible, if not likely. Especially since they'd have to be consulting a map of the site to plan out the production schedule.
 
I've always been fascinated with Vasquez Rocks since the original airing of Arena. I had wondered if there were actually "sparkly" rocks near the base of the outcropping as shown in Arena. Then, in the early '70's we (The High Desert Science Fiction Society) made a movie on location there based on an old Ditko comic called "Shade, The Changing Man." I played the co-star. No, the rocks are just rocks and the effect was either colored alluminum foil or colored cellophane.
Since that time I've been interested in the usage fo Vasquez Rocks in TV and movies and have collected several captures from them. I was even going to support a site all about it but gave up when I realized that there are hundreds of instances where it was used. That, along with the lack of anyone else being interested in a site like that, I gave it up.
So this brings me to ask you all; Have any of you been to Vasquez Rocks? Have or do any of you live near there? (I lived in Palmdale for 23 years) Are any of you familiar with (HIDEOUS) The High Desert Science Fiction Society? Tell us your story.

(You can click on any of these images to see the larger version)
Kirk beaming in
The Flinstones Movie Viva Rock Vegas
From the back of Sky and Telescope magazine
CSI (supposed to be Las Vegas)
I took this on location during Shade: The Changing Man
Toothless (movie with Kirsty Alley)

The Cowboy Way (movie)
I'm not sure about this one.
Arena

Here are a few short vids with Vasquez Rocks featured:

Friends (from Joey's Big Break)

Without A Trace

Army of Darkness (with Bruce Campbell)

Flintstones: Viva Rock Vegas

Atavachron
 
I've always been fascinated with Vasquez Rocks since the original airing of Arena. I had wondered if there were actually "sparkly" rocks near the base of the outcropping as shown in Arena. Then, in the early '70's we (The High Desert Science Fiction Society) made a movie on location there based on an old Ditko comic called "Shade, The Changing Man." I played the co-star. No, the rocks are just rocks and the effect was either colored alluminum foil or colored cellophane.

The main thing I remember about the rocks from my visit there was that there were some odd little round holes in them just above ground level, maybe 6-8 inches across, IIRC. I was wondering whether those were natural formations or something dug by film crews to store pyrotechnic charges in or something. My cousin told me that there are restrictions on what film crews are allowed to do to the site, it being a national park and all.

Since that time I've been interested in the usage fo Vasquez Rocks in TV and movies and have collected several captures from them. I was even going to support a site all about it but gave up when I realized that there are hundreds of instances where it was used.

It was used all the time in Power Rangers when that show was produced in LA. In the original five seasons, the Rangers' "command center" was a combination of two popular locations; they took a shot of the Brandeis-Bardin Institute's "House of the Book" building (also seen as Camp Khitomer in ST VI, Lore's Borg complex in TNG: "Descent," etc.) and superimposed it on top of the Vasquez outcropping. VR itself was often used as a location for desert planets. The fifth season ended with a massive action sequence that used both VR and the House of the Book as filming locations.

So this brings me to ask you all; Have any of you been to Vasquez Rocks? ... Tell us your story.

I've already told some of it. When I went out to LA a decade or so ago to pitch story ideas to the producers of Deep Space Nine, I got my cousin to drive me out to VR. Most people going to LA would probably make a point of visiting the Chinese Theater or Hollywood Boulevard or the Universal Tour; my priority was Vasquez Rocks. Yes, I'm an unrepentant sci-fi geek.

I took a lot of pictures of the rocks and geeked out from standing where Captain Kirk had stood, but I was too timid to climb up the big cliff. After a while, my cousin (a professional bicyclist) went off to do some solo mountain-biking and we agreed to meet back at his car. When I'd trudged back to the car, I waited a while and he didn't show up, so I went back to the main area to see if I could find him there. No luck, so I went back to the car, and still no sign. I was afraid he'd fallen down and hurt himself and I'd be stranded there in the desert. I was running back and forth along the road, calling his name, and eventually his car drove up behind me. As usual, I'd panicked over nothing. (In my defense, I hadn't gotten more than two hours of sleep in the preceding two days. One thing I learned on that trip is that I can't sleep on a futon.)

When I saw "Arena" again after my trip, it was interesting to see how fluid their use of the space was. What was edited to look like continuous movement across the landscape was really cut together from various discontinuous shots in different places with characters moving/facing in different directions, or actually being in different parts of the same area when they were supposed to be far apart. And as I said, the same thing was done in the Flintstones movie. I'm sure it happens all the time, because it's really a relatively small location that often has to pass for something much larger -- even two separate planets in the case of "Arena."

Which was what made it so interesting to see that Wild Wild West episode that used both the cliff and fortress parts of the location and made pretty good and accurate use of their real spatial relationship.
 
I've always been fascinated with Vasquez Rocks...

The main thing I remember about the rocks from my visit there was that there were some odd little round holes in them just above ground level, maybe 6-8 inches across, IIRC. I was wondering whether those were natural formations or something dug by film crews to store pyrotechnic charges in or something. My cousin told me that there are restrictions on what film crews are allowed to do to the site, it being a national park and all.
Two likely explanations would be 1) that those are metates*, or bowl-shaped depressions shaped by Native Americans grinding corn or other materials in what began as a natural dip in the rock, or 2) that they are similar depressions formed by erosion when a pebble gets into a low spot and is agitated by the wind over time. Both are commonly found in sandstone formations of this kind and both are known in that area.


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You know, the opening ground battle in Arena, between its set, explosions, military verisimilitude, and generally convincing action (that concussion Shatner takes is fantastic) is something I have yet to see matched on the small screen. Fantastic stuff!

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Two likely explanations would be 1) that those are metates*, or bowl-shaped depressions shaped by Native Americans grinding corn or other materials in what began as a natural dip in the rock, or 2) that they are similar depressions formed by erosion when a pebble gets into a low spot and is agitated by the wind over time. Both are commonly found in sandstone formations of this kind and both are known in that area.

Maybe, except my memory is of them being in vertical rock faces. I could be remembering wrong, though. Your attached photo does look similar to what I recall.
 
Two likely explanations would be 1) that those are metates*, or bowl-shaped depressions shaped by Native Americans grinding corn or other materials in what began as a natural dip in the rock, or 2) that they are similar depressions formed by erosion when a pebble gets into a low spot and is agitated by the wind over time. Both are commonly found in sandstone formations of this kind and both are known in that area.

Maybe, except my memory is of them being in vertical rock faces. I could be remembering wrong, though. Your attached photo does look similar to what I recall.
Just taking a wild guess, really. There could be other explanations, possibly related to Indian habitation or to the location's 19th-century use as a hideout by bandits such as the one for whom the rocks and park are named.

http://www.scvhistory.com/scvhistory/vasquez-thrall.htm
 
On the Vazquez Rocks topic though, is the nice glade and lake as seen in Shore Leave actually near Vazquez Rocks, as there are some rocky things in the distance, as seen when Kirk starts chasing Finnegan??
Much of the episode, including the lake and glade scenes, was shot a few miles away from Vasquez Rocks at a filming ranch then known as Africa, U.S.A., near Acton, California. (The property suffered heavy damage by flooding in 1969 and closed as a filming ranch, but was later acquired by Tippi Hedren and now exists as the Shambala Preserve. You can see the location of Vasquez Rocks Park to the northwest on this map.)

I'm not sure which rocks you mean when Kirk starts chasing Finnegan (the entire area is quite rugged and full of rocky outcroppings) but the scene shifts pretty quickly to the Vasquez Rocks site, where Kirk "finally beats the tar out of Finnegan".

I'll post some screencaps when I get home - it's when Kirk starts chasing Finnegan through the woody area, but before they reach Vazquez Rocks. Thanks for the info on Africa USA, such a shame that the property was damaged. I'm hoping the lake at the beginning is still there, as I'd like to visit it when I next go to the USA. I'll bring Tippi Hedren a cage with some love birds in it to keep her sweet ;)
 
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