What Aliens would you like to see in Season 2?

[eschaton]

I have to side with Rahul on this. Give us something new. I'm tired of the wash rinse repeat aliens. We need some creative writing. Dream something up. Tjmo

I think a lot of this comes down to how you see Trek. A lot of people seem to see it as more like the Twilight Zone. Even if can no longer be used as a quasi-anthology like the TOS setting, it can basically be used to examine virtually any sort of sci-fi setting. Me, I see it as more like D&D at this point, where a lot of the point of even telling a story within the established Trekverse is the lore. If you're not using that, just come up with an original content show.

 

[seigezunt]

Rasiinian.

 

[catshadowsi8]

I think a lot of this comes down to how you see Trek. A lot of people seem to see it as more like the Twilight Zone. Even if can no longer be used as a quasi-anthology like the TOS setting, it can basically be used to examine virtually any sort of sci-fi setting. Me, I see it as more like D&D at this point, where a lot of the point of even telling a story within the established Trekverse is the lore. If you're not using that, just come up with an original content show.

In my mind what makes Star Trek so enduring is that each installment has added to the universe both by introducing new characters we fall in love with and new aliens that are fascinating and sometimes terrifying in their own right. These new aliens define each series and they are instantly associated with them. Romulans, the Borg, species 8472, the Xindi....these are villains of course but you get my drift. Discovery needs this even if it is set in the pre TOS universe. That doesn't mean we cant use the pre existing aliens but I feel Discovery needs to do more than that.

 

[Rahul]

I think a lot of this comes down to how you see Trek. A lot of people seem to see it as more like the Twilight Zone. Even if can no longer be used as a quasi-anthology like the TOS setting, it can basically be used to examine virtually any sort of sci-fi setting. Me, I see it as more like D&D at this point, where a lot of the point of even telling a story within the established Trekverse is the lore. If you're not using that, just come up with an original content show.

I think you have to strike some sort of balance.
I really liked about TNG that in their first two seasons they alsmost didn't revisit any of the old stuff, and pretty much exclusively focused on exploring "new" stuff. That way, the show built their own "lore". But I was also really excited everytime a familiar TOS alien or character showed up later during the series.
I think TNG did very well in first building it's own lore up, finding it's own identity as a show, and be able to do some wild experiments - some successfull (the Borg), some not so much (early Ferengi). And THEN starting to do the cross-over stuff, to connecting it's own (now functional) lore with the traditional lore, and then going even further and connect to all the spin-off shows.

I think a modern day television show must be a bit more heavy on the lore right from the beginning. But so far, DIS is almost EXCLUSIVELY dependand on previous established lore - which has the problem that this is a show that still needs to find it's own voice. If it tries out new stuff, and fails or succeeds, it tells it's own stuff. So far, by using 100% pre-established material, and then fucking it up, it actually deludes the lore, and reduces the value of the Star Trek IP. At this point, I never want to see the klingons or the mirror universe again. And that were the two major story arcs of the first season, and they managed to completely exhaust any interest in two of the most well known concepts of classic Trek.

I think it needs to strike a balance. Something that feels like 50% - 50%. It wouldn't hurt if the main story arc of the next season was something completely new, unique and different, involving new major species and new plots, and the major side arc was something familiar, like a detour to the well-known alpha quadrant races.

I think none of the complaints would be that vocal if they show was actually good. But this is a new show. The writers are struggling to find a new take on Trek. And I think it would be much easier to innovate while using new stuff, instead of trying to find new takes on old stuff - only to find out the new version is now inferiour to what came before.

 

[eschaton]

In my mind what makes Star Trek so enduring is that each installment has added to the universe both by introducing new characters we fall in love with and new aliens that are fascinating and sometimes terrifying in their own right. These new aliens define each series and they are instantly associated with them. Romulans, the Borg, species 8472, the Xindi....these are villains of course but you get my drift. Discovery needs this even if it is set in the pre TOS universe. That doesn't mean we cant use the pre existing aliens but I feel Discovery needs to do more than that.

In terms of the placement in Trek's timeline - only a decade or so before TOS - I think it would be a big mistake to introduce a major new antagonist species which is never spoken of again. The Xindi were already head-scratchingly out of left field, and at least that prequel was a century or so prior to any of the later shows.

I think you have to strike some sort of balance.
I really liked about TNG that in their first two seasons they alsmost didn't revisit any of the old stuff, and pretty much exclusively focused on exploring "new" stuff. That way, the show built their own "lore". But I was also really excited everytime a familiar TOS alien or character showed up later during the series.
I think TNG did very well in first building it's own lore up, finding it's own identity as a show, and be able to do some wild experiments - some successful (the Borg), some not so much (early Ferengi). And THEN starting to do the cross-over stuff, to connecting it's own (now functional) lore with the traditional lore, and then going even further and connect to all the spin-off shows.

I think a modern day television show must be a bit more heavy on the lore right from the beginning. But so far, DIS is almost EXCLUSIVELY depended on previous established lore - which has the problem that this is a show that still needs to find it's own voice. If it tries out new stuff, and fails or succeeds, it tells it's own stuff. So far, by using 100% pre-established material, and then fucking it up, it actually deludes the lore, and reduces the value of the Star Trek IP. At this point, I never want to see the klingons or the mirror universe again. And that were the two major story arcs of the first season, and they managed to completely exhaust any interest in two of the most well known concepts of classic Trek.

I think it needs to strike a balance. Something that feels like 50% - 50%. It wouldn't hurt if the main story arc of the next season was something completely new, unique and different, involving new major species and new plots, and the major side arc was something familiar, like a detour to the well-known alpha quadrant races.

I think none of the complaints would be that vocal if they show was actually good. But this is a new show. The writers are struggling to find a new take on Trek. And I think it would be much easier to innovate while using new stuff, instead of trying to find new takes on old stuff - only to find out the new version is now inferiour to what came before.

TNG as a comparison isn't the best though, because they purposefully chose to make that show a sequel set in the 24th century, which meant we weren't going to see (many) characters from TOS, and the antagonist species would be new. As I said above, DIS is boxed in conceptually by the curious choice to make it not only another prequel show, but a prequel which takes place roughly a decade before TOS. As long as it's the prime universe, there's only so far you can take it (at least if you insist on "epic" and not smaller stakes as I would prefer).

 

[Rahul]

In terms of the placement in Trek's timeline - only a decade or so before TOS - I think it would be a big mistake to introduce a major new antagonist species which is never spoken of again. The Xindi were already head-scratchingly out of left field, and at least that prequel was a century or so prior to any of the later shows.

TNG as a comparison isn't the best though, because they purposefully chose to make that show a sequel set in the 24th century, which meant we weren't going to see (many) characters from TOS, and the antagonist species would be new. As I said above, DIS is boxed in conceptually by the curious choice to make it not only another prequel show, but a prequel which takes place roughly a decade before TOS. As long as it's the prime universe, there's only so far you can take it (at least if you insist on "epic" and not smaller stakes as I would prefer).

The Xindi storyline was pretty neatly tight up at the end of the season.
The Xindi lost the connection to the sphere builders which granted them superiour technology in the first place - thus they lost their main advantage in their region of space. Their fleets very very much decimated after countless civil war-like battles, and the most aggressive leaders (Reptilian and Insectoids) were killed. Leaving only a shattered Empire which would be grateful to be in peace with humans, in a far away remote region of space.
It'd be pretty logical Kirk and co. wouldn't meet them any time soon.

I wouldn't mind DIS to introduce a new, major antagonist, as long as they "solve" the conflict, via peace treaty or anything, and if it makes sense from a story perspectivey they won't be in regular contact with the Federations a lot afterwards.

 

[catshadowsi8]

I agree with Rahul. Taking existing species and twisting them into new story will not give Discovery it's own voice and imo it needs that. In fact we already have one new species, even if it is friendly, never conceived of before in the Kelpien and Saru. If this show chooses to box itself in with only pre existing alien villains, I feel it will also limit its potential.

 

[Tuskin38]

What about a species that was only ever mentioned but not seen?

It would tie into the lore while giving them room for creativity as said species was never explored.

 

[matthunter]

Centaurans.

Let's get some canon down on this one. Since TOS called him "Zefram Cochrane of Alpha Centauri" a lot of folk assumed the father of warp was actually non-human. His physical appearance in Metamorphosis was human, so a lot of non-canon sources went with "Centaurans look like humans but are more rational and science-driven" (i.e. best of both worlds humans/Vulcans) or "Cochrane was human but after his first warp flights relocated to Alpha Centauri because he liked it there and developed more advanced warp theories with colleagues amongst the Centaurans".

Let's see which it is, maybe flesh out their culture a bit. Hell, "Kayla Detmer" isn't a common human name combo, so perhaps our fave redhead (after Tilly) is Centauran?

 

[Spot261]

I thought we'd established Zephram Cochrane was extremely human?

 

[Saul]

(in fact, Uhura orders a Cardassian drink in her introduction in the 2009 movie

Wrong Universe.

I dislike the idea of exploring alien races that we've already seen explored (much better before).

There are already a lot of Alien races on Star Trek that haven't really been explored in detail. Getting to fill in those gaps is interesting.

 

[Jeyl]

Tholian... You should know why!

 

[eschaton]

I agree with Rahul. Taking existing species and twisting them into new story will not give Discovery it's own voice and imo it needs that. In fact we already have one new species, even if it is friendly, never conceived of before in the Kelpien and Saru. If this show chooses to box itself in with only pre existing alien villains, I feel it will also limit its potential.

IMHO a Trek show (or any show, for that matter) is given its own flavor through the characters and the setting. The aliens are to a certain extent window dressing.

I mean look at DS9 here. The alien races featured most prominently at the beginning of the series - the Bajorans, Cardassians, and Ferengi - were all established by TNG. DS9 still did far, far better at fleshing them out - you could never confuse a TNG Ferengi episode for a DS9 one. Indeed, what's most shocking is even the Season 7 TNG Ferengi episodes like Force of Nature and Bloodlines still use the Ferengi as antagonists - as did Voyager on at least two occasions - despite DS9 finding the "voice" for the race.

In later seasons DS9 did introduce the three major Dominion races, but there was also a greater focus on the Klingons and to a lesser extent even the Romulans. DS9 for the most part worked to expand existing Trek lore rather than create new lore whole cloth. Hell, the Breen started that way - they were just mentioned as an aside in a handful of TNG episodes, and the writer's team decided to give them a "personality." No one could accuse DS9 of being a TNG clone however.

In contrast, Voyager used almost exclusively new aliens (save for the Borg) due to its location in the Delta Quadrant. Despite that fact, it felt much more like a TNG clone because the setting, themes, and episode structure played it safe by hewing to the "Berman format."

 

[catshadowsi8]

Eschaton- I agree it has to have great chemistry between the crew but imo the aliens are not window dressing. They are part of what separates Star Trek from other SF series out right now like Expanse, Dark Matter, and Killjoys. They pretty much deal with humans and only humans, in space.

I guess I am in the minority but have a problem expanding on existing races only. In your example about DS9 the dominion was a brand new species that was both protagonist (Odo) and antagonist. The show was set in the Next Gen. universe but DS9 still found a way to be unique. Discovery is set in the original series universe but it needs to find it's own voice, as previous series have. If it doesn't, it runs the risk of becoming bogged down in existing canon to the point it can't expand fully upon it. I hope that doesn't happen.

I also think we are already avoiding the 'Berman factor' on this show as it is not playing it safe and sticking to the old format. It's serialized for one thing, something Berman fought against. It's also much darker.

 

[eschaton]

Eschaton- I agree it has to have great chemistry between the crew but imo the aliens are not window dressing. They are part of what separates Star Trek from other SF series out right now like Expanse, Dark Matter, and Killjoys. They pretty much deal with humans and only humans, in space.

I guess I am in the minority but have a problem expanding on existing races only. In your example about DS9 the dominion was a brand new species that was both protagonist (Odo) and antagonist. The show was set in the Next Gen. universe but DS9 still found a way to be unique. Discovery is set in the original series universe but it needs to find it's own voice, as previous series have. If it doesn't, it runs the risk of becoming bogged down in existing canon to the point it can't expand fully upon it. I hope that doesn't happen.

I also think we are already avoiding the 'Berman factor' on this show as it is not playing it safe and sticking to the old format. It's serialized for one thing, something Berman fought against. It's also much darker.

Maybe you misunderstood me. I don't think the aliens in Trek are interchangeable. But I don't think that the way you make a Trek show develop its own voice is by introducing new aliens. As I said, Voyager continually did so, and the races involved either seemed like second-rate versions of those in the Alpha Quadrant, or had no memorable personalities. Hell, The Orville (which I enjoy) feels very much like a TNG clone (with some TOS elements to its plotlines) because even though it doesn't use anything from Trek canon it hews to "the format" - episodic, crew of ranked officers, everything is bright, everyone gets along okay, etc. DS9 felt different not because of the aliens involved, but because of other design choices - to have the show not take place on a ship, to have half the cast not be Starfleet, to have conflict between cast members, and to have genuine character development and eventual semi-serialization.

I do agree that Discovery feels very different tonally from what came before. I might have issues with execution, but it's trying to tell Trek stories in a different way. I still hope that - presuming we get multiple Trek series out of CBS now - we get something a bit more ambitious which mixes up the "human-focused Starfleet crew on a ship" format. I've said in the past I'd love a series which focused on Curzon Dax as a young man as the top Federation ambassador to the Klingon Empire. This would overlap with the "TOS movie era" to some degree, which would allow for the expansion of some existing lore, but basically allow a clean slate to examine a likable rogue and his relationship with many different individual Klingons (including eventually Kang, Kor, and Koloth).

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Wrong Universe.

Not sure of that relevance. Both universes share the same sets of species.

 

[Kirk the Jerk]

More founding members of the Federation would be nice, Andorians and Tellerites.

 

[matthunter]

I thought we'd established Zephram Cochrane was extremely human?

If you mean First Contact, then that's when the "he was human but relocated to Alpha Centauri" stuff got mentioned. So... are Centaurans human-looking or not? If not, what DO they look like and why did Mister "Island full of naked women" choose to relocate there?

 

[Spot261]

If you mean First Contact, then that's when the "he was human but relocated to Alpha Centauri" stuff got mentioned. So... are Centaurans human-looking or not? If not, what DO they look like and why did Mister "Island full of naked women" choose to relocate there?

Surely given we know he's human we have nothing to go on regarding the Centaurans? Everything else is, as you say, non canon

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Strictly reading from TOS and disregarding what came after, I assumed Alpha Centauri was colonized by Earth humans prior to the invention of the warp drive.