Holy crap Captain, that last line made me spit out my coffee it was so funny! Well done! So true!
Wesley Crusher
- Thread starter Gaius
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Holy crap Captain, that last line made me spit out my coffee it was so funny! Well done! So true!
Wesley would have started as a better character if he had been the Academy Hot Shot, Top of his class, bot genius, graduate newly assigned to Enterprise. Then finding out that what you learn in the Academy doesn't always fly when you're out in space. Him trying to fit in on a ship of people with far more experience, and in the case of Data, far more knowledge.
Then we could have this 18-19 year young man, also have to deal with his mother being the ship's CMO.
I think all that would have made for some great Wesley episodes. Him learning that his shit does stink; and learning to develop a new relationship with his mother.
Great episodes for both Wesley and Beverly. Her learning to let go and that he's not the little boy who came running to her when he skinned his knees; and him learning that he learned a lot more than he realized from her. Learning how to find a new relationship can be difficult for parent and child. And even though he's a man, going on dangerous away missions, she'll still that little boy; and when she's running through cross fire to get to a wounded person he'll still see the mother who rocked him to sleep at night.
Well that's how I would have dealt with the character.
Then we could have this 18-19 year young man, also have to deal with his mother being the ship's CMO.
I think all that would have made for some great Wesley episodes. Him learning that his shit does stink; and learning to develop a new relationship with his mother.
Great episodes for both Wesley and Beverly. Her learning to let go and that he's not the little boy who came running to her when he skinned his knees; and him learning that he learned a lot more than he realized from her. Learning how to find a new relationship can be difficult for parent and child. And even though he's a man, going on dangerous away missions, she'll still that little boy; and when she's running through cross fire to get to a wounded person he'll still see the mother who rocked him to sleep at night.
Well that's how I would have dealt with the character.
I thought they kind of did that though, with him deciding to become a writer instead of Starfleet. Sure, it's not really rebellious, but it showed that he had his own interests he wanted to follow and he wasn't a whiny child about it.
I never got the "love" for Jake either, to me he was too bland a bit too much like a 20th century teenager than what's suggested the ones in the 24c are supposed to be like. We see a handful of them through TNG's run (mostly through Wes' experiences trying to get in the academy) and Jake never seemed to line up.
And before you say TNG was too unrealistic about how teenagers are consider how much different today's teenagers are compared to the ones that lived 400 years ago must have been like.
(Whether there's a de-evolution or evolution there is probably up to some debate. But there may be one between 19th century ones and today's.)
There's an episode in TNG where it's suggested that kids in primary school are doing calculus which may not be entirely unrealistic with the right school systems in place (the American school system, for instance spending a good part of every school year on review of the previous school year). I think there may have been an episode(s) of DS9 with Jake struggling to do algebra.
Either Jake was in a special needs tier of schooling to be in a lesser math course in his teens than one he should have been in grade-school or something isn't right here.
(And, yes, it's possible the kid in TNG may have been in advanced classes but if you think that I call into play my "writers intent" card, which says the intention of the scene is to tell us grade-school aged kids in TNG's time take advanced math courses in grade-school and not to suggest that this one kid was in an advanced class.)
Jake was just... "too normal" for a teenager and too much like his 20c counterparts. Hell there was a few times in DS9 where he encountered kids/young adults his own age and he seemed behind. Even fucking Nog matured better than Jake. Which either calls into question Ben Sisko's parenting skills or implies that at least Norm was a better father who demanded more of his child than Ben did.
And before you say TNG was too unrealistic about how teenagers are consider how much different today's teenagers are compared to the ones that lived 400 years ago must have been like.
(Whether there's a de-evolution or evolution there is probably up to some debate. But there may be one between 19th century ones and today's.)
There's an episode in TNG where it's suggested that kids in primary school are doing calculus which may not be entirely unrealistic with the right school systems in place (the American school system, for instance spending a good part of every school year on review of the previous school year). I think there may have been an episode(s) of DS9 with Jake struggling to do algebra.
Either Jake was in a special needs tier of schooling to be in a lesser math course in his teens than one he should have been in grade-school or something isn't right here.
(And, yes, it's possible the kid in TNG may have been in advanced classes but if you think that I call into play my "writers intent" card, which says the intention of the scene is to tell us grade-school aged kids in TNG's time take advanced math courses in grade-school and not to suggest that this one kid was in an advanced class.)
Jake was just... "too normal" for a teenager and too much like his 20c counterparts. Hell there was a few times in DS9 where he encountered kids/young adults his own age and he seemed behind. Even fucking Nog matured better than Jake. Which either calls into question Ben Sisko's parenting skills or implies that at least Norm was a better father who demanded more of his child than Ben did.
I thought Wesley's finest moment was seen in "The First Duty", easily one of the best episodes aired. In that episode he became what we all are, Everyman.
"For me "Final Mission" is a fantastic Wesley episode.
LOL. Sorry guys ! Credit goes to where it is due! Trekker 4747 sorry for the misqoute. Funny line !!!! thanks for the. Orrection Captain! This is why I don't post more! Lol.
You could argue, though, that most of the teenagers we saw on Trek before DS9 were people who were either aspiring to get into Starfleet Academy or were cadets. That would tend to make them a bit different, I would think, from the "average" teenager. Jake was someone who didn't want to be in Starfleet, and therefore he stands out as being different from the others we've seen.
Good point. I recall sitting down to watch the premier episode of DS9 and when I saw another kid in the cast list groaning inside. I thougt, "not again". But the Jake Sisco character had little in common with the Wesley Crusher character, and I thought over time became an important part of both the cast and the story line.
If Sisko was my father last thing I'd want to do is cop an attitude. It's like pissing off Bill Adama. One look and you nearly crap your pants.
Jake: "We were in the bar and, I guess we got a little drunk."
Sisko: "Drunk. I see that my faith in the two of you has sadly been misplaced. You both are confined to quarters until further notice. DISMISSED!!!!!!"
Wesley is annoying. Wesley must die!
I would have preferred a Bolian. There needs to be more Bolians.
When someone opens a door such as this, I have a hard time not walking through it. Therefore, and addmittedly going out on another limb, I will post my review of the TNG episode "Justice" in its entirety, as it was originally posted as part of my "TNG - Best and Worst Of" thread currently running on other websites.
It kind of fits with Lt. LaForge's comment above.
THE WORST OF STAR TREK TNG, SEASON ONE
1. Justice
Wesley Crusher is shot dead in front of a live studio audience!
Blam Blam Blam Blam…….
Wesley Crusher is in heaven now.
I made it a point to watch as many of the original airings of the first season of TNG as I could. This was one of those I managed to see the first time around. As I watched it, I found myself pondering two primary thoughts. One, this episode is abysmally stupid. Two, it had a opportunity to be the best episode ever put on film. This second thought could be articulated as follows:
“yes, yes, this could be good. They might actually do it, they might just go ahead and rid themselves of this annoying little twerp and off the Boy Wonder!”
I could imagine fans all across the country, calling each other up having conversations such as this:
“Hey, you gotta turn on Star Trek! They are going to kill Wesley Crusher!”
“What? No way!”
“Way! They are going to kill the little bastard!”
“Oh man! This is going to be great!”
Turns on TV:
“Who are all those babes?”
“Never mind that!! They are going to kill Wesley Crusher!!!! Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!”
Make it so.
But, no, Picard misses a golden opportunity to set his reputation in stone as the greatest Starfleet Captain ever to wear the uniform by saving poor little Wesley from the evil clutches of a bunch of effervescent scantily-clad blond-haired blue-eyed white people. Shame.
“What….ah….I don’t understand. You said they were going to kill him. Hello? Are you there?”
A moment of silence, followed by the sound of a single gun-shot.
So the Enterprise crew investigates the Planet of Gorgeous Blond-Haired Blue-Eyed White People, which excites Commander Riker to no end. He returns to the bridge and shouts out while holding his hands about six inches from his chest:
“You guys gotta see this! Well, ah, not you, Troi.”
And the crew beams down to be engulfed by a bevy of gorgeous blond-haired blue-eyed white women who believe sex is something you do to say hello. Except, of course, where Wesley is concerned, who gets sent off to play handball with the other annoying children. How many times have we parents done that, eh?
So anyway, Wesley goes out for a pass (nudge nudge wink wink say no more), trips, and crashes into a flower bed, thus murdering the poor defenseless flowers. The Planet of Gorgeous Blond-Haired Blue-Eyed White People Police show up and immediately sentence Wesley to death. These guys are enlightened. And fans all across the country creep to the edge of their seats slowly mouthing “yes…..yes…..”
But no, noooooooooooo! The Enterprise crew intervenes, and Picard negotiates, and a settlement is reached. And fans kick in their television screens while wishing for the heat death of the universe.
For those who may not know. The character of Wesley Crusher very quickly became one of the most despised characters ever to be featured on any Trek show to date. I mean, fans just didn’t dislike the guy, they hated him. A few fan quotes from Trek United dot com.
1. “I hate Wesley Crusher. He's one of the worse characters in all Star Trek.”
2. “to hate someone, that means opposite of loving him/her. Thats emotions talking.... With Wesley there is no emotion except feeling nausea, having need to light a smoke or go to the bathroom, when he comes into view.”
3. “I hate Wesley. hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate”
4. “Hate is not a strong word, but love is. So I love to hate Wesley”
And these guys were being kind. Another comment I found in an old Starlog Magazine stated:
5. “Wesley Crusher plus an airlock equals a good thing.”
Why was the character of Wesley Crusher so hated? Answers dot Com list this as the best answer chosen from all who responded:
“He was like Will Robinson only without the Robot. He simply did not fit in on the show. Plus what was the deal with that hair doo? Early fifties goober doo. He was the stale pause in the conversation as everyone seemed to have to talk around or down to him. It is not the actor's fault, the dialog was written that way but I would have dropped the character from his inception.”
Simply put, Trek fans did not want to view the reincarnation of their favorite television show only to watch some uber-annoying boy wonder save the ship week after week while Picard held meetings in the conference room trying to decide what to do. It was bad enough watching Picard hold meetings in the conference room trying to decide what to do. Kirk would never have let…..oh, wait…
WWKD: Dropped Wesley off on the planet of the three-hundred year old children. Bonk, Bonk, On The Head!!
There is a moment in this episode where Doctor Crusher, Wesley’s mom, pleads with Picard to save her son. She looks at him and tearfully moans:
“Oh, take me, Jean-Luc!”
No, wait. She actually says:
“They are going to kill Wesley!”
Picard hesitates for just a moment……….
Ah, well. There is only one moment in this crappy episode worth remembering. While down on The Planet of Gorgeous Blond-Haired Blue-Eyed White People Worf passes on engaging in any sort of “pleasure seeking” by dismissing the woman as to frail to be able to handle his Klingon mating habits. Heh…..
Parts of this episode were filmed at a location situated right below the flight path of Van Nuys municipal airport. As planes were constantly passing overhead, many scenes later had to be re-dubbed in post production. They should have left it as it was. Also in this episode, Ryker says to Worf “when in Rome”, referring to the habits of the local women to treat sex as part of the introduction process. In the Deep Space Nine episode “Let He Who Is Without Sin”, Doctor Julian Bashir says the same thing to Worf during their trip to Risa. I just thought you might want to know.
A personal note. I recall sitting down to watch the premier episode of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. The moment I saw that there was another child as part of the cast, I groaned inwardly and thought, please, not again. Thankfully, Jake Sisko was written to be the antithesis of Wesley Crusher, and his character consistently enhanced the overall appeal of DS9 as a television show. The writers of DS9 has apparently paid attention to the fans.
In the MMO game Star Trek Online, players can go to The Planet of Gorgeous Blond-Haired Blue-Eyed White People and destroy it without remorse. I just made that up.
End Quote.
As I have said before, the Wesley Crusher character would get better and become more effective, but at this time in the history of the franchise, well, Lt. FaForge has a point.
That was a very hilarious and excellent review!
I don't know what it is, but I kinda like Justice. Or at least, parts of it. Maybe because it's so campy, and unashamedly so. When I watched the episode, I knew that Wesley was not going to die, so perhaps that disappointment wasn't really there for me. I'll watch that episode before a (dispiritedly high) number of other Season 1 episodes.
Thank-you!
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