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Were the Breen tricked into joining the Dominion?

Cromwell

Lieutenant
Red Shirt
Since it can be fairly reasonably assumed that there was a Changeling working against the Breen ("By Inferno's Light"), and because it is made clear that the Female Changeling has no intention of honouring her promises to cede control of Earth and Romulus to the confederacy, can it be said that the Breen were tricked into joining the Dominion?

I've always had an interest in the Breen and had hoped they'd be explored in greater detail than they were.

If this was to be taken into consideration, also, how harsh (or not) can we expected the Treaty of Bajor to have been to the Confederacy?
 
I'm not sure what you mean by "Confederacy" since no one was seceding from anything. The war was about the Dominion wanting to conquer the Alpha Quadrant. Gul Dukat made a deal with the Dominion for the Cardassian Union to join the Dominion and fight against the Federation, Klingon, (and later) Romulan Empires.
To answer your question though, yes the Breen, as well as the Cardassians, and anyone else allied with the Dominion, were only a means to an end as far as the Founders were concerned. The Founders see it as their mission to conquer the galaxy because they believe they are bringing order to chaos. Any promises they made, or treaties they signed were only going to be honored by them as long as it served their purposes. We already saw how they gained more and more control over Cardassia, essentially making them prisoners in their own home. They would have done the same with the Breen and everyone else.
In regards to Bajor, the Dominion was already sending Vorta down to the planet in what was certainly phase one of the beginning of the conquest of the planet. They couldn't continue further because DS9 was retaken by the Federation and they were forced to leave.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by "Confederacy" since no one was seceding from anything. The war was about the Dominion wanting to conquer the Alpha Quadrant. Gul Dukat made a deal with the Dominion for the Cardassian Union to join the Dominion and fight against the Federation, Klingon, (and later) Romulan Empires.

The Confederacy is the name of the Breen Government.

To answer your question though, yes the Breen, as well as the Cardassians, and anyone else allied with the Dominion, were only a means to an end as far as the Founders were concerned. The Founders see it as their mission to conquer the galaxy because they believe they are bringing order to chaos. Any promises they made, or treaties they signed were only going to be honoured by them as long as it served their purposes. We already saw how they gained more and more control over Cardassia, essentially making them prisoners in their own home. They would have done the same with the Breen and everyone else.

I agree.

In regards to Bajor, the Dominion was already sending Vorta down to the planet in what was certainly phase one of the beginning of the conquest of the planet. They couldn't continue further because DS9 was retaken by the Federation and they were forced to leave.

I don't really know what you're talking about here. I'm referencing the Treaty Of Bajor (signed in "What You Leave Behind"). How harsh do you imagine it might have been on the Breen, if take into consideration the fact that they wee, probably, tricked into aligning with the Dominion?
 
I'm not sure what you mean by "Confederacy" since no one was seceding from anything. The war was about the Dominion wanting to conquer the Alpha Quadrant. Gul Dukat made a deal with the Dominion for the Cardassian Union to join the Dominion and fight against the Federation, Klingon, (and later) Romulan Empires.

The Confederacy is the name of the Breen Government.

To answer your question though, yes the Breen, as well as the Cardassians, and anyone else allied with the Dominion, were only a means to an end as far as the Founders were concerned. The Founders see it as their mission to conquer the galaxy because they believe they are bringing order to chaos. Any promises they made, or treaties they signed were only going to be honoured by them as long as it served their purposes. We already saw how they gained more and more control over Cardassia, essentially making them prisoners in their own home. They would have done the same with the Breen and everyone else.

I agree.

In regards to Bajor, the Dominion was already sending Vorta down to the planet in what was certainly phase one of the beginning of the conquest of the planet. They couldn't continue further because DS9 was retaken by the Federation and they were forced to leave.

I don't really know what you're talking about here. I'm referencing the Treaty Of Bajor (signed in "What You Leave Behind"). How harsh do you imagine it might have been on the Breen, if take into consideration the fact that they wee, probably, tricked into aligning with the Dominion?

Oh okay, I misunderstood you. My bad.
That is a good question. I imagine the treaty being a lenient one. The main goal was to end the fighting and get the Dominion the heck out of the Alpha Quadrant. The Breen joined very late in the game, but they did cause a good amount of heartache for the short time they were in the war. Perhaps certain restrictions were put in the treaty in regards to their energy draining weapons, and making sure they don't continue to develop that technology.
 
It's difficult to tell how hard that treaty was on anybody, because we never learned its contents, or any of its consequences. All that was ever said was that the fighting ended. Nothing was said about, say, the Jem'Hadar withdrawing from the planets they still controlled (if any), or the Cardassian Union being chopped up between the winners, or the Federation agreeing never again to venture to Gamma - all possible elements in the treaty, but unfortunately inaccessible to us.

The Breen are not sitting down at the table where the Founder signs the treaty. They stand next to Feds, Cardassians, Romulans and Klingons, while just the Gamma species of the Dominion are sitting down. Are they among the losers, or the winners?

Cardassia switched sides at the last moment - and so did the Breen, for all practical purposes (their generals walked out, suggesting they were planning something completely dissimilar to the official "we're needed at the front lines" party line!). Perhaps they reap the rewards of that decision now? If placed on the same line with Cardassians, they emerge as the definite winners, as their old enemies are now badly hurt by the war while no Breen world was touched AFAWK.

At a deeper level, we're left wondering who won the war. The Dominion got Odo back, which may be the only reason they stopped fighting. And both sides may realize that had they not volunteered to stop, the Dominion would have won. Perhaps not that day, but certainly a few decades hence, when the reinforcements arrived. (And perhaps the war will continue when they do arrive, via the slow route...)

The treaty might well have been one of conditional UFP surrender to the Dominion, rather than vice versa. The one known condition being that the Female Founder would "stand trial" and "accept responsibility" - but the courts might not dare give any other verdict but "not guilty"...

Timo Saloniemi
 
I'm sure part of the treaty was for the dominion to go back to the gamma quadrant, With just the female changeling being held in custody.
 
That would be desirable for the Alpha cultures - whether it would be that for the Dominion, too, is debatable.

The Alpha Axis really wasn't in a position to dictate terms after Odo had delivered the cure to the Founder disease. They'd have to tread softly if they wanted to prevent a second war, one that Alpha would be certain to lose. Basically, they'd have to convince the Founders that this particular bunch of Solids wasn't a priority.

Agreeing to mutual withdrawal from the alien quadrants and then cutting all wormhole contact would probably satisfy both sides. The Feds would know that it takes the next Dominion armada some 70 years to arrive, and the Dominion would know that the Feds no longer can subvert Gamma species to an anti-Dominion cause through their insidious propaganda.

Timo Saloniemi
 
That would be desirable for the Alpha cultures - whether it would be that for the Dominion, too, is debatable.

The Alpha Axis really wasn't in a position to dictate terms after Odo had delivered the cure to the Founder disease. They'd have to tread softly if they wanted to prevent a second war, one that Alpha would be certain to lose. Basically, they'd have to convince the Founders that this particular bunch of Solids wasn't a priority.

Agreeing to mutual withdrawal from the alien quadrants and then cutting all wormhole contact would probably satisfy both sides. The Feds would know that it takes the next Dominion armada some 70 years to arrive, and the Dominion would know that the Feds no longer can subvert Gamma species to an anti-Dominion cause through their insidious propaganda.

Timo Saloniemi
Not allowing the Dominion through the wormhole would pretty much emasculate the Jemhadar threat, especially after the Federation had an inside guy with the Prophets.
 
They would also absolutely hate sharing their divine status.

Yet in their war with Alpha, they were bested by gods, real gods. Those were and are in control of the wormhole - so it might actually be an acceptable face-saving measure for the Dominion to agree to withdraw to Gamma and then forget all about the Celestial Temple.

That would keep the Alpha Solids from interfering with Dominion affairs for a while. And the Dominion never was in a hurry to conquer the entire galaxy; it could afford to wait.

Except it wouldn't have to wait, as its actions during the war demonstrate it could keep on pumping warships and troops towards Alpha basically indefinitely: their stranded beachhead force outproduced the entire native Alpha industries combined! Just build ten times more ships than were used in the war, and send them sailing towards Alpha by conventional means - accompanied by breeding ships that will generate the necessary Jem'Hadar just before arrival.

Whether this would be doable in practice or not, we don't know, but possibly the Founders don't, either. They could still sign an agreement to withdraw fairly confident in their own security.

Timo Saloniemi
 
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