Were Bezos and Musk killed by The Borg?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by CaptainWacky, Jun 7, 2021.

  1. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Location:
    Nuevo México
    Since we're talking about real-life Lex Luthor and real-life Max Lord, I feel like this is more of a Brianic thing than a Borg thing.
     
    jackoverfull likes this.
  2. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Ah I forgot about that.
     
  3. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    I wonder what "Time and Again" would be. An inverse predestination paradox?
     
    Orphalesion likes this.
  4. Finn

    Finn Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Location:
    Austin
    Wondering how all the timeline changes affects TNG's Cause and Effect.
     
  5. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Is it canon that Cochrane's ship used an antimatter reactor? I don't ever recall that being mentioned. And speculation, even canon speculation, stipulates that fusion came first (Spock mentions the fusion era in ST:IV).
     
  6. CaptainWacky

    CaptainWacky Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2000
    Location:
    CaptainWacky
    He's the Eastern Coalition.
     
    1001001 and M'Sharak like this.
  7. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Location:
    The Wormhole
    I have decided the Bozeman crew wear Disco Blue uniforms instead of Monster Maroons.
     
    Finn likes this.
  8. Annorax849

    Annorax849 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 22, 2014
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Well the Borg weren't there in the original timeline anyway. If you mean in the timeline where the Borg take over, maybe, but I just assumed Cochrane died in the attacks.

    Unless you want to argue the Borg were in the original timeline, which is a whole other discussion...
     
  9. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Location:
    USS Prodigy
    The way I figure it, there are three main timelines:

    A - which we never see, by the way, has no Borg in the past and Cochrane successfully does his warp stunt with a couple of mooks (probably not wealthy tourists, as they appear to have a job to do. Maybe Lily and a friend). It ultimately results in a timeline where the Borg decide to travel back in time and kill Cochrane for getting humanity on the intergalactic stage (note: it doesn't have to be Picard and Starfleet who stop them in the very first iteration).

    B - and variations - where the Borg are successful in killing Cochrane, either in that initial attack or eventually during their conquest of Earth. Earth is assimilated and they likely slowly spread out into the Alpha Quadrant, poking and prodding the local races for their next big prey. However, in every iteration, this is witnessed by their adversary (probably on purpose...) via the temporal vortex, and that adversary follows them to "revert" the changes.

    C - the ultimate timeline that we see in the movie (with a variant of Timeline B) - where Starfleet is a thing and Picard exists and its all thanks to the Borg attacking Cochrane and his two mooks are just some guys who never got their photo taken and are lost to history. It is a reoccuring predestination paradox with a couple of quirky steps due to the necessary use of a temporal vortex.

    It probably took a few quadrillion iterations for everything to smooth out into the form we see onscreen.

    This is probably true of all Star Trek predestination paradoxes or the ones like here that involve a couple of timeline resets within the paradox.
     
  10. Coops

    Coops Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2021
    Yeah I hope so and I hope the final words they heard before they were assimilated were...

    "If you assholes had paid your fair share of taxes perhaps humanity would've been able to use that money to develop to a level high enough to defend itself from us"

    It's a bit wordy for a Borg Drone but I think you get the gist.....
     
    Nyotarules and CaptainWacky like this.
  11. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2021
    Antimatter expensive? Nah, what gave you that Idea? Antimatter is estimated at Sixty Trillion dollars for a gram!!

    That means that if ONE BILLION people wanted to buy one gram of antimatter collectively, each would have to give Sixty thousand dollars!!!!
     
  12. Disposable_Ensign

    Disposable_Ensign Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2021
    In the novel, Federation, he is funded by the benefactor Micah Brack.
     
  13. Disposable_Ensign

    Disposable_Ensign Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2021
    But that's balanced by the fact that matter is FREE.
     
  14. Doom Shepherd

    Doom Shepherd Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    Location:
    Proxy Server 601
    "Why waste money in space when there are so many problems on earth?" - everyone who actually has the mindset you describe above. (Plus a healthy amount of "If we go to [Insert barren space location here], we'll just mess up its -lifeless waterless airless- ecosystem!")

    Those aren't the droids you're looking for.
     
  15. Coops

    Coops Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2021
    I’m not thinking about that kind of thing I’m just tired of fellas like Bezos and Musk being held up as examples of some kind of highly intelligent pioneers a la the fictional Cochrane when they’re really just a couple of got-luckys who now cheat the system for their own benefit.
     
  16. CaptainWacky

    CaptainWacky Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2000
    Location:
    CaptainWacky
    Maybe the Vulcans only decided to make first contact because they knew the Borg had taken care of Musk and Bezos.
     
    Nyotarules and Coops like this.
  17. Coops

    Coops Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2021
    Yeah, their first attempt failed as they accidentally signed up for Prime and an overpriced ugly car:lol:
     
    Nyotarules likes this.
  18. dupersuper

    dupersuper Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2020
    If he did he probably just lied to Libyan nationalists about building a bomb with it...

    AKA Flint.
     
  19. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    I think what we see in First Contact isn't what happened in the timeline of TNG. I guess in the past of the show, the Borg weren't around when Cochraine made his Warp 1 flight with the Phoenix.

    From an older post i made:

    "It's my belief that the Borg changed themselves via time travel some time after "Descent", maybe shortly before First Contact, because Hugh's return crippled or even destroyed the original collective we've seen in TNG.

    Or maybe the Borg's arrival in 2063 and their later transmission send to the Delta Quadrant during the 22nd century created the changed Borg we've seen since First Contact. And that might be the pogo paradox, Braxton talked about in "Relativity".

    As i hinted at in my post, it's very possible imo that the pogo paradox, mentioned in "Relativity", doesn't concern the Borg collective seen in TNG at all. Just Version 2.0 seen since this movie.
     
  20. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Biological immortality will be a thing by 2030 in the real world thanks to exponential advancements and returns, so Bezos and Musk could have technically survived with that (assuming they existed in Trek timeline to begin with as survived WW3 to begin with - but there's no evidence thus far they have even existed in Trek).

    Its possible WWIII decimated some of the existing developments in biological immortality (perhaps by intent)... but even so, over 600 million dead with most governments and militaries gone... that's a fairly small number compared to even present amount of 7.9 billion... and despite the loss of life, technology and general scientific knowledge weren't really destroyed - I mean, even if you assume the population didn't progress to much further beyond 7.9 billion... the loss of life from WW3 would drop the population to 7.3 billion people (that's a drop in a bucket - a very bloody one mind you, but only about 6.3% reduction).

    Anyway, Humanity managed to rebuild very quickly with no assistance from the Vulcans (at least nothing in regards to resource or technology sharing)... and all those people needed to be fed and clothed for the most part (you can attribute the ragged clothing to general poverty).

    But since biological immortality was never mentioned in Trek to begin with (and seems stupidly elusive to UFP ridiculously advanced medical science), I would argue that Cochrane's original co-pilots were going to be some of his team as I doubt he'd want to fly with a couple of 90 year old men as his co-pilots who could easily have a whole bunch of medical issues due to lack of ability to access medical care during WW3).

    There is also no evidence that original members of Cochrane's team were killed in the initial Borg attack (and let's be frank, the Borg could have levelled the surrounding area in a radius of at least 10km if they wanted to... and probably obliterate the Phoenix in the process as well - with just 1 torpedo - heck even a TNG photon torpedo would have done more damage than that).