Well, at least this place is calmer than GB

[Tomalak]

I think I've said before that I don't visit the Who sections, because they are way to intense. If I want to talk about Doctor Who, smaller places like this, Roobarb's or The Leisure Hive are much better.

And to be fair, I barely looked at the Star Trek movie forum here - I did all my talking about that on OG/GB!

There are lots of nice people on there, you just have to look for them. The Inferno section is great, as are the Sport, Music and TV forums. Just ignore the Doctor Who sections.

 

[matthunter]

I think part of the problem is the Specials Year. Without new episodes to discuss, the whole place has devolved into the kind of sad-arsery that many Who fans occupied between 1987 and 2005. Picking over the scraps or bemoaning the "rubbish" that Season 5 will be.

That said, there are also some fairly obvious trolls in the mix who are probably extremely happy with the forum's strict no-flaming policy since they can "win" by getting other posters banned.

But we can at least all have a laugh at Ian Levine.

 

[Cutter John]

I think you nailed it Matt. Without new Who to talk about, fans tend to get twitchy anddesperate for things to talk about and end up just starting all sorts of idiot nonsense. 'Idle hands' and all that.

 

[matthunter]

I think you nailed it Matt. Without new Who to talk about, fans tend to get twitchy anddesperate for things to talk about and end up just starting all sorts of idiot nonsense. 'Idle hands' and all that.

OG suffered the same problem - I tended not to log in between series as within a week or so after the finale the silly season begins.

 

[Winterwind]

OG/DWF/GB is the land of powering tripping mods and rabid fans.

Inspired by this thread, I popped over there, something I rarely do and was immediately reminded of the third thing I dislike there. I was hit in the face with a massive message saying "Hi Josan... Patronship! Money! Money money money!"

 

[ClayinCA]

Well, me personally, I like it over there. I tend to frequent the same places: the books, audios, fan art, and TV show forums, as well as Keith Topping's Fortress of Solitude forum, and that's about it - I avoid spoiler sections and most discussion of the TV series itself except for what occurs in the places I just mentioned, so maybe I haven't seen the really bad stuff that people here are mentioning?

 

[ChristopherPike]

Funny that you mention this now. Just yesterday I re-registered after an absence of several months. One glance around the place and I'm seriously starting to wonder why I bothered... I suppose I'll see how long I can lurk before either making my 1st post (something like 6001st, taking into account past OG/DWF activity) or get deleted. My first gripe was seeing how Eccleston/Tennant now come under what used to be a section purely devoted to the Classic Series 1963-89/96... I'm sorry but lumping in four years of the New Series, doesn't sit right with me.

You think you can take time out for a well earned break, smell the roses and the world goes straight to hell while your back is turned.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Well, me personally, I like it over there. I tend to frequent the same places: the books, audios, fan art, and TV show forums, as well as Keith Topping's Fortress of Solitude forum, and that's about it - I avoid spoiler sections and most discussion of the TV series itself except for what occurs in the places I just mentioned, so maybe I haven't seen the really bad stuff that people here are mentioning?

Well, what provoked me yesterday has all been deleted anyway - and normally I'm a defender of the place.

 

[23skidoo]

I think part of the problem is the Specials Year. Without new episodes to discuss, the whole place has devolved into the kind of sad-arsery that many Who fans occupied between 1987 and 2005. Picking over the scraps or bemoaning the "rubbish" that Season 5 will be.

That's one of the things that was turning me off OG even before the closure was announced. It's like Catherine Tate x 10. Remember how everyone hated Catherine Tate (at least in the UK - no one here in North America knew who she was so we didn't care) and she was going to destroy Doctor Who and RTD was an idiot etc etc. People had no idea what she was going to do with Donna Noble, and once she got into the role (nearly) everybody loved her.

It's the same with Matt Smith. There are folks who hate him because their actor of choice wasn't chosen. Others hate him simply because he isn't David Tennant. And we all know that unless he's a total trainwreck he's going to do fine. Everyone expected Doctor Who to die when Eccleston quit and that guy who played Casanova and slimy Barty Crouch Jr. was brought in. Worse yet, he spent all but 10 minutes of his first episode asleep! And look what happened.

And then there's the Moffat factor as you have people who -- as factions of SF fandom tend to do -- seem to be embarrassed for fawning over Blink and Girl in the Fireplace all those years ago, because now Moffat is in charge and you're not supposed to like the people in charge of SF shows, right? (Seriously, it's true - I saw that happen with Trek. Brannon Braga was a very well-regarded writer when he did stuff for TNG and DS9, but once he was put in the producer role, especially with regards to Enterprise, he became hated.)

I'm not the first to point out that it's a good thing the Internet didn't exist during the original 26 seasons; it wouldn't have made it past year 5. Can you imagine how OG/GB would have responded to something like The Web Planet? Invasion of the Dinosaurs? The cancellation of Shada? Colin Baker's costume? The idea of replacing William Hartnell with a much younger man?

Alex

 

[diankra]

I'm not the first to point out that it's a good thing the Internet didn't exist during the original 26 seasons; it wouldn't have made it past year 5. Can you imagine how OG/GB would have responded to something like The Web Planet? Invasion of the Dinosaurs? The cancellation of Shada? Colin Baker's costume? The idea of replacing William Hartnell with a much younger man?

Alex

I'm guessing that you weren't reading fanzines during the 1980s? Colin's costume? Violet Elizabeth Bott? Season 24 and that idiot off Jigsaw? The web just about matches how venomously they got received... (and I think one of the DVDs has clips of a teenage Chris Chibnall turning grand inquisitor to the guilty parties on a BBC 'Producers meet the public' show around season 24. Come to that, the DWAS magazine ran an anti-Deadly Assassin piece called 'What has happened to the magic of Doctor Who?' back in 1977!).
But it's a fair point: things that got let off as a bad few weeks in the early years would get ripped apart now...

 

[DWF]

Yeah here's the rant about The Deadly Assassin.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/deadlyassassin/detail.shtml

At the time of the story's original transmission, however, many fans took the view that it contradicted the minimal details that had previously been revealed about the Doctor's race, and were absolutely infuriated by this. 'What must have happened is that at the end of The Hand of Fear the Doctor was knocked out when the TARDIS took off and had a crazy mixed up nightmare about Gallifrey,' suggested Jan Vincent-Rudzki in TARDIS Volume 2 Number 1 in 1977.
'As a Doctor Who story, The Deadly Assassin is just not worth considering. I've spoken to many people... and they all said how this story shattered their illusions of the Time Lords and lowered them to ordinary people. Once, Time Lords were all-powerful, awe-inspiring beings, capable of imprisoning planets forever in force fields, defenders of truth and good (when called in). Now, they are petty, squabbling, feeble-minded, doddering old fools. WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE MAGIC OF DOCTOR WHO?' These outspoken criticisms from someone who was, at the time, President of the Doctor Who Appreciation Society had a very influential effect and were echoed and expanded upon by numerous other reviewers, including David Fychan in Oracle Number 12, dated September 1978:
'Here was a whole four episodes about the Time Lords; a chance to gaze deep into a society of immeasurable age; a chance to see what the Doctor left behind; an insight into the Doctor's mentality (why does he prefer the human race?) - and as such, it was incredibly, unbelievably wasted. It failed badly as anything but a thriller-SF story about an Earthly society. Time Lords were really only humans - for every emotion they showed, for every motive they possessed, there are clear parallels simply on Earth...
'What we "learnt" in The Deadly Assassin was quite revealing: no Time Ladies; a stiff caste system; a fact-adjusting society; torture; a constitution; a police force; Shabogan hooligans - all these go to make up the Gallifrey that we found...
'So, the most important question about the adventure is not "How does it fit in?" but "Is it worth trying to fit in?". The Deadly Assassin is an incongruity in Doctor Who.'
With the passage of time, the story has been re-evaluated, as was recognised by John C Harding in Frontier Worlds 9, dated June 1981: 'All civilisations rise and fall, and the idea of showing the Time Lords at the nadir of their civilisation was, in theory, a good one. At the time... I - like most fans - was incensed at this treatment of these previously god-like beings. It [was], however, a logical progression.'
'The degeneration of the Time Lord race is portrayed reasonably and realistically,' agreed Saunders, 'if one assumes that those seen in The War Games with the almost omniscient powers in fact belonged to the Celestial Intervention Agency [as referred to in this story]... This would seem to have been the reason for casting Erik Chitty and the (ever fascinating) George Pravda - I just love his intonation - as well as the two Prydonians from whom the Doctor "borrowed" his ceremonial robes. That our mysterious, pacifistic observers have now, in the main, become a bunch of old dodderers... would seem to explain the necessity of the Chancellery Guard.'
Harding also liked the way in which the principal Time Lords in this story were portrayed: 'By far my favourite character was Spandrell. Although at times the dry accent of George Pravda brought [it] close to going over the top, for the most [part] he maintained a sardonic and superbly cynical character... Cardinal Borusa (Angus MacKay) was perhaps the strongest character - a Gallifreyan Disraeli. He had the rare ability to bridge the gap between appearances and reality, although he was too ready to tip the balance in favour of appearances. He was played with disdainfully reserved authority, which is the only way to treat such a character without demeaning him: it is impossible to work behind the scenes and be seen as powerful at the same time.'

 

[Steve Roby]

Brannon Braga was a very well-regarded writer when he did stuff for TNG and DS9, but once he was put in the producer role, especially with regards to Enterprise, he became hated.

The one flaw in an otherwise mostly reasonable post. First, Braga never wrote for DS9; second, I know I wasn't the only person who was tired of his one trick pony mindfuck episodes well before TNG was over.

On the broader subject of OG/GB culture... I still like the DW books section and the music section, and I'm glad GB got rid of OG's silly practice of giving one company, Big Finish, its own discussion area, so book discussions were in the books area unless they were published by Big Finish, and audios were discussed in audios unless they were published by Big Finish...

Also, the way OG ended, at least from what little was made public, was a combination of petulance and stupidity, and a lot of it seemed to come from people who are still involved with GB, not just just OG's owner. The Iris Wildthyme fuss was absurd; it was the kind of stupidity I'd expect from a noob, not someone who was modding Compuserve's Trek forum nearly twenty years ago and has a crapload of experience.

But the main show forums? I regret nearly every visit I make to them. Here, I regret the visits I make to the individual Trek series forums only three-quarters of the time.

Oh and as for the moneygrubbing at OG and GB: I paid for patron accounts a few times, and I'd do it here, if it meant getting rid of the damn ads.

 

[Blamo]

In defence of Gallifrey base, most of the arguing and moaning only happens in the future Who section at the moment. The rest of the forum is a rather pleasant place.

Yeah here's the rant about The Deadly Assassin.

While it was venomous and over the top, I have to agree with the basics of what they said.

 

[Starkers]

Brannon Braga was a very well-regarded writer when he did stuff for TNG and DS9, but once he was put in the producer role, especially with regards to Enterprise, he became hated.

The one flaw in an otherwise mostly reasonable post. First, Braga never wrote for DS9; second, I know I wasn't the only person who was tired of his one trick pony mindfuck episodes well before TNG was over.

I think I need to recheck which episodes Braga wrote; I seem to recall quite liking many of his, especially the TNG ones. I think the problem was once he became a producer, not so much the job just the fact that he and Berman had been involved so very long and had clearly burnt out of all originality (Enterprise prtoved this beyond a shadow of a doubt) I think what B&B proved is that you can stay in a job too long, which luckily RTD seemed to realise, and hopefully Moffat will as well (but hopefully not for a few years )

 

[captcalhoun]

"Reunion" (teleplay with Thomas Perry, Jo Perry and Ronald D. Moore)
"Identity Crisis" (teleplay)
"The Game" (teleplay, story with Susan Sackett and Fred Bronson)
"Power Play" (teleplay with Rene Balcer and Herbert J. Wright)
"Cause and Effect"
"Imaginary Friend" (teleplay with Edith Swensen)
"Realm of Fear"
"Schisms" (teleplay)
"A Fistful of Datas" (teleplay with Robert Hewitt Wolfe)
"Aquiel" (teleplay with Ronald D. Moore)
"Birthright, Part I"
"Frame of Mind"
"Timescape"
"Phantasms"
"Parallels"
"Sub Rosa" (teleplay)
"Eye of the Beholder" (story)
"Genesis"
"Emergence" (story)
"All Good Things..." (with Ronald D. Moore)
VOY: (48)
"Parallax" (teleplay)
"Phage" (teleplay with Skye Dent)
"The Cloud" (story)
"Emanations"
"Cathexis" (teleplay, story with Joe Menosky)
"The 37's" (with Jeri Taylor)
"Projections"
"Non Sequitur"
"Cold Fire" (teleplay)
"Threshold" (teleplay)
"Deadlock"
"Flashback"
"Remember" (story with Joe Menosky)
"Future's End" (with Joe Menosky)
"Future's End, Part II" (with Joe Menosky)
"Macrocosm"
"Darkling" (story with Joe Menosky)
"Rise" (teleplay)
"Distant Origin" (with Joe Menosky)
"Scorpion" (with Joe Menosky)
"Scorpion, Part II" (with Joe Menosky)
"Year of Hell" (with Joe Menosky)
"Year of Hell, Part II" (with Joe Menosky)
"Prey"
"The Killing Game" (with Joe Menosky)
"The Killing Game, Part II" (with Joe Menosky)
"Living Witness" (teleplay with Bryan Fuller and Joe Menosky, story)
"Hope and Fear" (teleplay with Joe Menosky, story with Rick Berman and Joe Menosky)
"Night" (with Joe Menosky)
"Drone" (with Bryan Fuller and Joe Menosky)
"Timeless" (teleplay with Joe Menosky, story with Rick Berman and Joe Menosky)
"Latent Image" (story with Eileen Connors and Joe Menosky)
"Dark Frontier" (with Joe Menosky)
"Think Tank" (story with Rick Berman)
"Someone to Watch Over Me" (story)
"11:59" (story with Joe Menosky)
"Warhead" (story)
"Equinox" (teleplay with Joe Menosky, story with Rick Berman and Joe Menosky)
"Equinox, Part II" (teleplay with Joe Menosky, story with Rick Berman and Joe Menosky)
"Dragon's Teeth" (with Michael Taylor and Joe Menosky)
"Memorial" (story)
"Fury" (story with Rick Berman)
"Life Line" (teleplay with Robert Doherty and Raf Green)
"Unimatrix Zero" (teleplay with Joe Menosky)
"Unimatrix Zero, Part II" (teleplay with Joe Menosky, story with Mike Sussman and Joe Menosky)
"Human Error" (teleplay with André Bormanis)
"Author, Author" (story)
"Endgame" (story with Rick Berman and Kenneth Biller)
ENT: (37)
"Broken Bow" (with Rick Berman)
"Fight or Flight" (with Rick Berman)
"Strange New World" (story with Rick Berman)
"Unexpected" (with Rick Berman)
"Terra Nova" (story with Rick Berman)
"The Andorian Incident" (story with Rick Berman and Fred Dekker)
"Shadows of P'Jem" (story with Rick Berman)
"Fusion" (story with Rick Berman)
"Shuttlepod One" (with Rick Berman)
"Rogue Planet" (story with Rick Berman and Chris Black)
"Acquisition" (story with Rick Berman)
"Oasis" (story with Rick Berman and Stephen Beck)
"Detained" (story with Rick Berman)
"Vox Sola" (story with Rick Berman and Fred Dekker)
"Fallen Hero" (with Rick Berman and Chris Black)
"Desert Crossing" (story with Rick Berman and André Bormanis)
"Two Days and Two Nights" (story with Rick Berman)
"Shockwave" (with Rick Berman)
"Shockwave, Part II" (with Rick Berman)
"Carbon Creek" (story with Rick Berman and Dan O'Shannon)
"A Night in Sickbay" (with Rick Berman)
"Marauders" (story with Rick Berman)
"The Seventh" (with Rick Berman)
"The Communicator" (story with Rick Berman)
"Vanishing Point" (with Rick Berman)
"Precious Cargo" (story with Rick Berman)
"Stigma" (with Rick Berman)
"The Crossing" (teleplay with Rick Berman, story with Rick Berman and André Bormanis)
"Cogenitor" (with Rick Berman)
"Bounty" (story with Rick Berman)
"The Expanse" (with Rick Berman)
"The Xindi" (with Rick Berman)
"Carpenter Street" (with Rick Berman)
"Harbinger" (story with Rick Berman)
"Azati Prime" (story with Rick Berman and Manny Coto)
"Zero Hour" (with Rick Berman)
"These Are the Voyages..." (with Rick Berman)

from Mem Alpha

 

[Tomalak]

Smoothly done!

Ah, that's better.

 

[ClayinCA]

In defence of Gallifrey base, most of the arguing and moaning only happens in the future Who section at the moment. The rest of the forum is a rather pleasant place.

Well that's what I thought! Glad to see I'm not crazy (well, not for that anyway ).

 

[Starkers]

"Reunion" (teleplay with Thomas Perry, Jo Perry and Ronald D. Moore)
"Identity Crisis" (teleplay)
"The Game" (teleplay, story with Susan Sackett and Fred Bronson)
"Power Play" (teleplay with Rene Balcer and Herbert J. Wright)
"Cause and Effect"
"Imaginary Friend" (teleplay with Edith Swensen)
"Realm of Fear"
"Schisms" (teleplay)
"A Fistful of Datas" (teleplay with Robert Hewitt Wolfe)
"Aquiel" (teleplay with Ronald D. Moore)
"Birthright, Part I"
"Frame of Mind"
"Timescape"
"Phantasms"
"Parallels"
"Sub Rosa" (teleplay)
"Eye of the Beholder" (story)
"Genesis"
"Emergence" (story)
"All Good Things..." (with Ronald D. Moore)
VOY: (48)
"Parallax" (teleplay)
"Phage" (teleplay with Skye Dent)
"The Cloud" (story)
"Emanations"
"Cathexis" (teleplay, story with Joe Menosky)
"The 37's" (with Jeri Taylor)
"Projections"
"Non Sequitur"
"Cold Fire" (teleplay)
"Threshold" (teleplay)
"Deadlock"
"Flashback"
"Remember" (story with Joe Menosky)
"Future's End" (with Joe Menosky)
"Future's End, Part II" (with Joe Menosky)
"Macrocosm"
"Darkling" (story with Joe Menosky)
"Rise" (teleplay)
"Distant Origin" (with Joe Menosky)
"Scorpion" (with Joe Menosky)
"Scorpion, Part II" (with Joe Menosky)
"Year of Hell" (with Joe Menosky)
"Year of Hell, Part II" (with Joe Menosky)
"Prey"
"The Killing Game" (with Joe Menosky)
"The Killing Game, Part II" (with Joe Menosky)
"Living Witness" (teleplay with Bryan Fuller and Joe Menosky, story)
"Hope and Fear" (teleplay with Joe Menosky, story with Rick Berman and Joe Menosky)
"Night" (with Joe Menosky)
"Drone" (with Bryan Fuller and Joe Menosky)
"Timeless" (teleplay with Joe Menosky, story with Rick Berman and Joe Menosky)
"Latent Image" (story with Eileen Connors and Joe Menosky)
"Dark Frontier" (with Joe Menosky)
"Think Tank" (story with Rick Berman)
"Someone to Watch Over Me" (story)
"11:59" (story with Joe Menosky)
"Warhead" (story)
"Equinox" (teleplay with Joe Menosky, story with Rick Berman and Joe Menosky)
"Equinox, Part II" (teleplay with Joe Menosky, story with Rick Berman and Joe Menosky)
"Dragon's Teeth" (with Michael Taylor and Joe Menosky)
"Memorial" (story)
"Fury" (story with Rick Berman)
"Life Line" (teleplay with Robert Doherty and Raf Green)
"Unimatrix Zero" (teleplay with Joe Menosky)
"Unimatrix Zero, Part II" (teleplay with Joe Menosky, story with Mike Sussman and Joe Menosky)
"Human Error" (teleplay with André Bormanis)
"Author, Author" (story)
"Endgame" (story with Rick Berman and Kenneth Biller)
ENT: (37)
"Broken Bow" (with Rick Berman)
"Fight or Flight" (with Rick Berman)
"Strange New World" (story with Rick Berman)
"Unexpected" (with Rick Berman)
"Terra Nova" (story with Rick Berman)
"The Andorian Incident" (story with Rick Berman and Fred Dekker)
"Shadows of P'Jem" (story with Rick Berman)
"Fusion" (story with Rick Berman)
"Shuttlepod One" (with Rick Berman)
"Rogue Planet" (story with Rick Berman and Chris Black)
"Acquisition" (story with Rick Berman)
"Oasis" (story with Rick Berman and Stephen Beck)
"Detained" (story with Rick Berman)
"Vox Sola" (story with Rick Berman and Fred Dekker)
"Fallen Hero" (with Rick Berman and Chris Black)
"Desert Crossing" (story with Rick Berman and André Bormanis)
"Two Days and Two Nights" (story with Rick Berman)
"Shockwave" (with Rick Berman)
"Shockwave, Part II" (with Rick Berman)
"Carbon Creek" (story with Rick Berman and Dan O'Shannon)
"A Night in Sickbay" (with Rick Berman)
"Marauders" (story with Rick Berman)
"The Seventh" (with Rick Berman)
"The Communicator" (story with Rick Berman)
"Vanishing Point" (with Rick Berman)
"Precious Cargo" (story with Rick Berman)
"Stigma" (with Rick Berman)
"The Crossing" (teleplay with Rick Berman, story with Rick Berman and André Bormanis)
"Cogenitor" (with Rick Berman)
"Bounty" (story with Rick Berman)
"The Expanse" (with Rick Berman)
"The Xindi" (with Rick Berman)
"Carpenter Street" (with Rick Berman)
"Harbinger" (story with Rick Berman)
"Azati Prime" (story with Rick Berman and Manny Coto)
"Zero Hour" (with Rick Berman)
"These Are the Voyages..." (with Rick Berman)

from Mem Alpha

I had to ask...

I do actually really like a lot of those episodes.

 

[Andy S]

I like a lot of Gallifrey Base. You just have to learn not to take it all that seriously, particularly the new series forums.

But the fun bits are, well, fun...

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

Must admit, hearing the guy in District 9 say fook all the time he seemed to veer from South African to Geordie!

Much like Daphne's English friend in Frasier in that one episode.

Not that I care for this drokking fake cursing, a load of old cremola I say!