weighting of the JJverse

[Vance]

I didn't say the movie failed, I said people have 'moved on'.. and they have. This was summer popcorn fare and the audience is now one (and just about two) movies down the line. The idea that some of you guys are pushing that this movie was the second strike of lightning, or that Trek is now 'reborn' is just a load of wishful thinking.

Now, can you kindly scurry back to your OWN forum and stop polluting this one with troll fests?

 

[T'Bonz]

Now, can you kindly scurry back to your OWN forum and stop polluting this one with troll fests?

Stop that NOW. No getting personal unless you want a warning.

Well, I guess he's very surprised now.

I wrote an article for TrekNation last month regarding this (I gave the source article in this thread, not my own,) and I remembered it when I read his post.

 

[Vance]

Stop that NOW. No getting personal unless you want a warning.

Oh, come on, this whole thread was flame-bait waiting to happen, and of COURSE the usual guys who like to argue, parse, etc, on every single forum to stir crap up are here doing it now again. Seriously, just a few minutes into the thread and they're here basically saying "Suck it up, it's a hit, and something's wrong with your head for not worshipping it like we do!" all over again.

And, as for getting a warning, honestly, I don't really care that much anymore, since any pretense of a fair and even-handled approach to moderation when it comes to those who 'defend' the movie and those who might, heaven forbid, have a criticism of any point of it, was thrown out the window months ago.

When you publically call Dennis or Number6, et al, on the carpet with anywhere near the ferocity you do anyone on the 'other side of the fence', then I'll take that opinion seriously, as well as possibly give back an iota of respect that I once had.

 

[Chrisisall]

[When you publically call Dennis or Number6, et al, on the carpet with anywhere near the ferocity you do anyone on the 'other side of the fence', then I'll take that opinion seriously, as well as possibly give back an iota of respect that I once had.

I come here to respect the greatness of Trek, not to challange it.

Seriously, we need to bring the fun back to saying "I like this" or "I don't like that." Ranting in a vitriolic way is for other sites, IMO. Are we not here to celebrate?

I love Trek, it's pluses & minuses.

And I love my Playmates Enterprise (it's so cool now that I cut the audio wire).

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

And I love my Playmates Enterprise (it's so cool now that I cut the audio wire).

What's the deal with the audio wire?

 

[RobertMfromLI]

How much does/will the alternate universe count for you, compared to the Prime universe we are most use to, especially TOS and its associated movies?

It's a familiar universe, likable actors and familiar characters - where almost anything can happen. The next two movies are not hampered by concerns about how TOS did it before.

Well, they (other than McCoy) were mostly only familiar in name to me. Nor was any effort really hampered because TOS exists. There were plenty of stories to tell. A back-story/history does not have to hamper anything. Instead if could have built a lot without being a prerequisite for people to understand the movie.

Now, let's get onto something ironic. Not you being ironic... your claim (which is actually part of JJ's argument) being ironic in the face of what they may do next. "The next two movies are not hampered..." - yet they are thus considering doing a Khan episode next.

Makes me smile.

And nothing stops someone exploring the old universe again some day, in some future movie or TV show. In fact, the comics and novels are still exploring it.

And of course so are we at Star Trek New Voyages: Phase 2. And I think we're proving there are plenty of stories to tell (and we've barely touched on the stack of stories we have or have been offered). And we've proven there is interest in them. And interest in TOS (hence the movie digging into that era).

But regardless, I am far more a TOS fan than a JJ-Trek fan.

 

[Neopeius]

The film is only a failure to those who seem to have very rigid exacting standards. That would have happened no matter what. To them, the film was a failure before the script was greenlit.

*plucks straw out of his vest* How did that get there?

 

[Neopeius]

I didn't say the movie failed, I said people have 'moved on'.. and they have. This was summer popcorn fare and the audience is now one (and just about two) movies down the line. The idea that some of you guys are pushing that this movie was the second strike of lightning, or that Trek is now 'reborn' is just a load of wishful thinking.

Are you kidding? NuTrek will have as lasting an impact as NuLost in Space!

 

[number6]

I didn't say the movie failed, I said people have 'moved on'.. and they have. This was summer popcorn fare and the audience is now one (and just about two) movies down the line. The idea that some of you guys are pushing that this movie was the second strike of lightning, or that Trek is now 'reborn' is just a load of wishful thinking.

Are you kidding? NuTrek will have as lasting an impact as NuLost in Space!

Is there a NuLost in Space sequel in the works?

 

[RobertMfromLI]

I didn't say the movie failed, I said people have 'moved on'.. and they have. This was summer popcorn fare and the audience is now one (and just about two) movies down the line. The idea that some of you guys are pushing that this movie was the second strike of lightning, or that Trek is now 'reborn' is just a load of wishful thinking.

Are you kidding? NuTrek will have as lasting an impact as NuLost in Space!

Is there a NuLost in Space sequel in the works?

I was not aware there was a NuTrek sequel truly in the works. Announced? Yes. In the works? Well, we will see. Probably.

But I suspect it will have a much tighter budget. As of yet, I am seriously unsure whether NuTrek actually made money - Paramount's claims aside (well, their most recent ones, which don't touch on the higher overbudget figures in the $200 million to $300 million range).

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I didn't say the movie failed, I said people have 'moved on'.. and they have. This was summer popcorn fare and the audience is now one (and just about two) movies down the line. The idea that some of you guys are pushing that this movie was the second strike of lightning, or that Trek is now 'reborn' is just a load of wishful thinking.

Are you kidding? NuTrek will have as lasting an impact as NuLost in Space!

Is there a NuLost in Space sequel in the works?

The Lost In Space movie had a production budget of 80 million dollars and a domestic gross under 70 million. So of course there's no similarity between either the success or the public enthusiasm for Star Trek versus that film. The comparison is less spurious than the "New Coke" goofiness only because it's closer to comparing apples to apples, but it fails because the facts regarding performance run completely counter to it.

Of course, it was kind of silly to see the LIS fans complaining at the time that the movie somehow trashed the property - that's like saying that bulldozers razing a burnt-out abandoned slum are "trashing" it (I enjoyed the show when I was a kid, and I liked the movie). And Oldman is great in everything he does.

 

[T'Bonz]

When you publically call Dennis or Number6, et al, on the carpet with anywhere near the ferocity you do anyone on the 'other side of the fence', then I'll take that opinion seriously, as well as possibly give back an iota of respect that I once had.

Oh please. If Dennis or Number6 GET PERSONAL, they will most certainly be called out. I know in the case of Dennis, I've warned and even banned him before, so stow the accusations of bias.

And remember, it's JUST a movie. If someone feels the opposite of you about it, who the hell cares? I certainly don't care if someone feels the opposite about the movie (or any movie, or any actor in the movie) than I do. If they disagree, well on to the next thing.

 

[number6]

Are you kidding? NuTrek will have as lasting an impact as NuLost in Space!

Is there a NuLost in Space sequel in the works?

The Lost In Space movie had a production budget of 80 million dollars and a domestic gross under 70 million. So of course there's no similarity between either the success or the public enthusiasm for Star Trek versus that film. The comparison is less spurious than the "New Coke" goofiness only because it's closer to comparing apples to apples, but it fails because the facts regarding performance run completely counter to it.

Of course, it was kind of silly to see the LIS fans complaining at the time that the movie somehow trashed the property - that's like saying that bulldozers razing a burnt-out abandoned slum are "trashing" it. And Oldman is great in everything he does.

Oldman was certainly the best part of LIS. There was very little more about that movie I liked, but I don't think anyone has ever mistaken LIS for some kind of high art. It was always a kid's show.

TOS, otoh, was always an adult sci-fi show. While I think this film may have over simplified its purpose, in trying to reach a wider audience, I think there is potential to tell deeper stories, now that the introduction has been made.

 

[RobertMfromLI]

And remember, it's JUST a movie. If someone feels the opposite of you about it, who the hell cares? I certainly don't care if someone feels the opposite about the movie (or any movie, or any actor in the movie) than I do. If they disagree, well on to the next thing.

Bingo! Me liking the movie doesn't force someone else to like it. Me disliking it as Trek doesn't force someone else to dislike it.

And as for me, I enjoy finding out why people feel the same - or different - about it than me. We each take away different - or sometimes the same - thing from our entertainment. It's interesting to see those differences and similarities.

It's like two people enjoying a sunset near a lake - for two different reasons. Yet neither (since both are subjective and opinions) is less valid a reason. For me, it could be the way the sun is casting shadows on the mountain, while for someone else it could be the way the light is reflecting off the water of the lake, or the colors it is casting in the sky... while others may find sunsets depressing because they mark the end of the day...

...the sun still sets regardless.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Oldman was certainly the best part of LIS. There was very little more about that movie I liked...

I liked a lot of the set and costume design. I liked Matt LeBlanc - sue me - I liked Heather Graham in form-fitting polyvinyl and surprisingly I liked both of the kid actors. The CG effects failed to convince - well, that was a long time ago.

"And the monkey flips the switch."

 

[number6]

Oldman was certainly the best part of LIS. There was very little more about that movie I liked...

I liked a lot of the set and costume design. I liked Matt LeBlanc - sue me - I liked Heather Graham in form-fitting polyvinyl and surprisingly I liked both of the kid actors. The CG effects failed to convince - well, that was a long time ago.

"And the monkey flips the switch."

OK.. You got me there.

I didn't hate the film. I liked everything except Penny and Will.

The film was definitely aimed at people 20-30 years younger than I am.

 

[Vance]

Oh please. If Dennis or Number6 GET PERSONAL, they will most certainly be called out. I know in the case of Dennis, I've warned and even banned him before, so stow the accusations of bias.

Really? Becuse you called me on the carpet publically yet their own statements in this very thread didn't even warrant a friendly, despite their repeated goading. The facts that this has been gonig on for months and literally thousands of times (many of which well documented in several forums) is why I'm not just accusing you of bias, but stating it as an axiom.

The fact that a number of your staff have either publically or privately admitted that this is a problem wouldn't lend much credence to your argument either.

And remember, it's JUST a movie.

It's not the movie that's really the issue. It's the problem that there are individuals who have decided that it's worth drawing battlelines over and that the staff of TrekBBS (as a whole) has proved themselves as enablers of such behaviour - so long as it 'supports' the new movie.

 

[Vance]

Is there a NuLost in Space sequel in the works?

Well, NuLost was supposed to be a trilogy when it was made... but of course the movie bombed. (I admit, I never saw it myself, though I probably should at some point.)

On the other hand, NuTrek definately did suceed as a movie, of course, and I have a hard time imaging that they wouldn't green-light a sequel... The point is that it's not the kind of movie that keeps and maintains the 'masses' for the months, years, after the movie's out in the first place. It's a 'summer popcorn movie', and apparently a good one. But it's not a franchise builder.

 

[number6]

Is there a NuLost in Space sequel in the works?

Well, NuLost was supposed to be a trilogy when it was made... but of course the movie bombed. (I admit, I never saw it myself, though I probably should at some point.)

On the other hand, NuTrek definately did suceed as a movie, of course, and I have a hard time imaging that they wouldn't green-light a sequel... The point is that it's not the kind of movie that keeps and maintains the 'masses' for the months, years, after the movie's out in the first place. It's a 'summer popcorn movie', and apparently a good one. But it's not a franchise builder.

Sure it is. Paramount has already done more than hint about the value of the franchise and its future. How well it succeeds as a franchise will depend greatly on how good the next film is, as with any film franchise.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Sure it is. Paramount has already done more than hint about the value of the franchise and its future. How well it succeeds as a franchise will depend greatly on how good the next film is, as with any tentpole franchise.

None of the TOS-based movies were what anyone would call "franchise builders" either - the first one got so-so reviews and had so much trouble turning a profit that the studio basically cashiered the executive producer before they'd consider producing a low-budget sequel (under the aegis of the studio's television division to keep costs down). The sequels all made most of their money in the first few weeks of release and would then drop off the radar. None of them were blockbusters on the order of other big films of the 1980s, either.

Star Trek (2009) is not only making more money for the studio in first-run than any other Trek movie (and will just continue to pile it up in DVD release) but is showing better legs at the box office than the previous films. The word-of-mouth on the film has been excellent (again, in contrast to, say ST:TMP). So if any Trek movie can ever have been said to be a "franchise builder" at all it would be this one and possibly "The Voyage Home" - the latter because studio enthusiasm for it supposedly helped to promote the idea of TNG internally.