Weight Related Discrimination
- Thread starter Maestro
- Start date
Actually, what airlines try to do when first class isn't full is upgrade the frequent flyers. And from a business's perspective, that's fair. They're rewarding good customers.
Again, my point was that the heavy woman demanded I be moved.
Demanded special accomodations--the seat I'd paid for in addition to her own--at the expense of another paying customer.
That's not protesting discrimination--that's demanding special treatment on the basis of weight.
Exactly.
One person. One seat.
Not one person, half a seat. One person, one-and-a-half seats.
So are small clothes. Because of the insanity of the fashion industry, I've been downsized out of mass market.
I do promise you one thing. When my fashion line debuts, there won't be a difference in price based on size. But there will be a difference in style. What looks good on a larger woman dwarfs a petite, and what looks good on a petite looks cute and silly on a larger woman. We should all be able to dress in fashions that suit us.
Besides, I love making clothes for larger women.
Add to those the illnesses I outlined in my earlier post. I'm happy that Lookingglassman was able to overcome the issues that made maintaining a healthy weight difficult for him. I'm happy that I manage to stay physically fit and within a healthy weight range despite the medical conditions that affect me. The truth is, though, that we two are lucky. Not everyone can lose weight. People don't opperate in vacuums, and the aspects of their lives and bodies are not disparate, but intertwined. A person with the same thyroid condition as you may not have the same medical options as you have. She may have other conditions which compounded add up to something more than she is (or most anybody would be) able to deal with. A person may not have the means or education to keep themselves as healthy as you do.
I am not saying that people shouldn't take personal responsibility for themselves, they should; I am just trying to remind people that there are external factors and individual factors that we may not know about, or which may not be readily apparent or understandable. People look down on fat people often because they are falling into what's considered a classic behavior in the study of psychology: they tend to contribute the successes in their lives more to their own actions, and their failures more to external circumstances, when usually both our successes and our failures are equally a result of our actions and external contributing factors.
Only an idiot would think that all people and all people's bodies act and react the same way. And only an arrogant idiot thinks he's better than others because he's thinner. Just because, you, Lookinglassman, and I can stay fit whilst dealing with these medical issues doesn't mean everybody else can (no matter how much effort they put into it), to suggest otherwise implies that some one is massively uninformed, and to express it so viciously just makes you sound ugly.
Well, I'm about 6' 1" and 145 lbs, so I guess this thread can't apply to me personally. But I do feel for some of the really overweight people out there, it can be a huge problem. My brother's a fire-fighter, and they often assist with accidents or medical problems.
A couple days ago a rescue helicopter decided not to evac a patent. Too heavy, unsafe. Not the sort of thing you want to hear when you're badly hurt/ill!
The fire dept is also called in when an ambulance is trying to take a very large person from their home - often the medics are not physically able to lift the person into the ambulance.
I think you can imagine the problem with getting a 400 lb person out of a mangled car with the jaws of life.
So getting help in emergencies can be really problematic. There's no way around that, unfortunatly.
A couple days ago a rescue helicopter decided not to evac a patent. Too heavy, unsafe. Not the sort of thing you want to hear when you're badly hurt/ill!
The fire dept is also called in when an ambulance is trying to take a very large person from their home - often the medics are not physically able to lift the person into the ambulance.
I think you can imagine the problem with getting a 400 lb person out of a mangled car with the jaws of life.
So getting help in emergencies can be really problematic. There's no way around that, unfortunatly.
I think the point was they can't just go cold turkey like a drinker or smoker. It's easier to quit smoking altogether than just smoke two a day.
I've had this argument with our fearless (and she is certainly that) leader a couple times.
Yes, there are fat people who have real medical/biological issues that cause them to be fat. They're maybe about 5% of the fat people.
How many fat Brazillians do you know of?
Americans, in general, are inert gluttons. The vast majority of fat come from exactly where it fat comes from. Shitty diet with no movement.
Most fat people are fat becase they eat shit and don't move. It's that simple. For some logicless reason, when I say this, people who are in the bio-fat (genetic) group tend to get pissed at me. I have no idea why. If you are bio-fat, then I'm not talking about you.
And, here's the kicker. EVEN IF you are bio-fat, guess what? Eating better and moving more will cause you to lose weight.
Did everyone get that? No matter the reason you're fat, if you improve your diet and jog a little, you will lose weight. 100% of the time. Diet and excersize has a 0% weight loss failure rate.
I think she has been very clear from the get-go and you should probably apologize to her for your constant attacks.
You're a fat guy aren't you? I mean otherwise you'd not be taking this so personally.
I don't think you're entirely incorrect, but I disagree with you about the simplicity of the causes of overweight, and the simplicity and ease of a solution. I didn't address only the obvious physical reason for overweight (more calories going in than coming out), and I didn't address only the medical pathologies that can cause overweight, but intentionally included the more complex causes; for almost everyone who is overweight, the reasons are more complex. There are social and psychological causes to be considered -- which are the ones you deleted when you quoted my original post and replaced with "more stuff." Just as human behavior is not black and white, neither is human biology; and to make the situation even more complex is the fact that you cannot truly separate the one from the other.
And why do people assume that only fat people are offended by the disparaging attitude toward fat people? I'm not "bio-fat" or any other kind of fat. I'm a size four! I'm offended by the negativity and nastiness with which fat people are treated because I think most of it is bred out of ignorance, and the rest out of cruelty.
I don't consider myself fat, but it is a constant struggle for me to stay at my current weight. There are a variety of factors. I'm an emotional person and an emotional eater. I love food. My husband cannot comprehend the idea of eating unless he is hungry. I savor the flavors of food and have to watch myself so that I am not eating more than I need to fuel my body.
I have an hormonal imbalance regarding my thyroid. This should be easy to correct but for some reason it stabilizes, and then after a few months, is off again by a signifcant amount. This affects my metabolism obviously, and while it makes it more difficult to lose weight, it also affects my energy levels. This means that I slowly become less active without even realizing it, and burn fewer and fewer calories.
I have other health issues as well. I'm allergic to nearly everything outside, so my exercise is mostly limited to running on our treadmill during very limited hours. I get ill quite often and will have to stop exercising for weeks at a time.
My diet, too, is more limited than I would like. I cannot consume many fresh fruits or some vegetables as well. So both my diet and exercise can suffer quite easily.
These aren't excuses and they are things I can overcome with careful planning and dedication. Still, I understand the struggle with weight and all the complexities that come with it. I do believe that every person should strive for a healthy body and that this is something between a person and their doctor, and no one else. I do not believe that shaming anyone will help them to reach their goals.
I have an hormonal imbalance regarding my thyroid. This should be easy to correct but for some reason it stabilizes, and then after a few months, is off again by a signifcant amount. This affects my metabolism obviously, and while it makes it more difficult to lose weight, it also affects my energy levels. This means that I slowly become less active without even realizing it, and burn fewer and fewer calories.
I have other health issues as well. I'm allergic to nearly everything outside, so my exercise is mostly limited to running on our treadmill during very limited hours. I get ill quite often and will have to stop exercising for weeks at a time.
My diet, too, is more limited than I would like. I cannot consume many fresh fruits or some vegetables as well. So both my diet and exercise can suffer quite easily.
These aren't excuses and they are things I can overcome with careful planning and dedication. Still, I understand the struggle with weight and all the complexities that come with it. I do believe that every person should strive for a healthy body and that this is something between a person and their doctor, and no one else. I do not believe that shaming anyone will help them to reach their goals.
^Thank you for such a detailed and honest post, Kestra. And if you'll forgive me for saying so, you've detailed precisely the kind of case study I was trying to describe: A combination of factors, internal and external, physical and psychological, that lead to difficulties in weight management.
hellsgate
Commodore
Weight related discrimination is not appropriate & shouldn't be tolerated ~under ANY circumstances~.
BUT, people should also keep in mind that they're going to faces challenges in gaining total acceptance for the time being. Not everything can & should be covered in the Canadian (or any other nation's,) constitution. Obesity is a health threat to oneself & changes in lifestyle should be encouraged to be pursued accordingly. Opportunities for such change should be embraced by employers just like Maternity / Family Leave.
However, staring at the obese, in addition to projection of physical abuse, harassment, unkind remarks and intentional social ostracizing must not be encouraged / condoned.
Airlines & other transportation authorities are going to have-to start bold-printing their policies at the foremost positions of their literature (in all popular languages such as Chinese, Spanish, English, French, et al.) on obese customers & "additional-required-seating" arrangements in order to prevent misunderstandings. In addition to training their staff on sensitivity to obese customers & de-escalation.
BUT, people should also keep in mind that they're going to faces challenges in gaining total acceptance for the time being. Not everything can & should be covered in the Canadian (or any other nation's,) constitution. Obesity is a health threat to oneself & changes in lifestyle should be encouraged to be pursued accordingly. Opportunities for such change should be embraced by employers just like Maternity / Family Leave.
However, staring at the obese, in addition to projection of physical abuse, harassment, unkind remarks and intentional social ostracizing must not be encouraged / condoned.
Airlines & other transportation authorities are going to have-to start bold-printing their policies at the foremost positions of their literature (in all popular languages such as Chinese, Spanish, English, French, et al.) on obese customers & "additional-required-seating" arrangements in order to prevent misunderstandings. In addition to training their staff on sensitivity to obese customers & de-escalation.
^ Your participation in this thread is what inspired me to post, TSQ! You've done a good job of touching on the various aspects. I think many people assume that if you look healthy, you are. I've gotten so good at covering my many illnesses that not many people would be able to tell when I'm on a high dosage of steroids for my asthma, or that I had to go to the hospital the night before because of my allergies. Psychological and social factors are even more difficult to observe and treat. I appreciate anyone who understands that it can be more than just laziness.
It's only complex if you allow it to be. Same as anything. DIFFICULT? Sure. Complex? Only if you have a complex.
By the way, if I sound insensitive toward this issue, or out of touch with this issue, or like any old guy bashing on fat people....
HIGHSCHOOL:
http://50statespoker.us/Pics/hsdave.jpg
COLLEGE:
http://50statespoker.us/Pics/collegedave.jpg
2004 and 2005
http://50statespoker.us/Pics/fatdave.jpg
2007:
http://50statespoker.us/Pics/davenshae_phixr.jpg
2008:
http://50statespoker.us/Pics/fatdave.jpg
I have some first-hand knowledge.
http://50statespoker.us/Pics/Dave-mikey08med.jpghttp://50statespoker.us/Pics/collegedave.jpg
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^You have first hand knowledge about you, not about anyone else. That's what I'm trying to get across. For some people it is simple, for everyone else, it's not.
People can't be blamed for making judgements and assumptions about others based on their appearance, everyone does it and does so naturally. And I can sympathize. Sometimes, when I see an exceptionally obese person, my initial reaction is very negative, but I make the effort to remind myself that I don't know what that individual is going through. And when I'm particularly emotional, I make the same kinds of stupid judgements about myself: You look healthy, why can't you do this! I can do a fair job of beating myself up.
Yet, I still think people should be expected to take the responsibility to inform themselves as much as they can, and I think that people should make an effort to maintain a level of open-mindedness, thoughtfulness, and humility when they make judgements about others. Especially humility. I know a fair number of people, many on this board, who could do with a dose of humility.
I'm glad to hear you say that, and I know exactly how you feel. Only just the other week I was chatting with a couple of people who work in my company's office, while I waited for the head of the financial department to draft a letter regarding my income for the purpose of determining my payment on a sliding scale at a low-cost psychiatric health clinic (my health coverage unfortunately doesn't cover shrinks). As we talked on the subject, I ended up telling her that I am on 4 medications (for juvenile diabetes, and bipolar -- though I referred to the bipolar as "another condition," for reasons that deserve a discrimination thread of their own), and also reliant on other medical supplies. "But you look so healthy!" she said. People assume I am healthy, because I look healthy.
People can't be blamed for making judgements and assumptions about others based on their appearance, everyone does it and does so naturally. And I can sympathize. Sometimes, when I see an exceptionally obese person, my initial reaction is very negative, but I make the effort to remind myself that I don't know what that individual is going through. And when I'm particularly emotional, I make the same kinds of stupid judgements about myself: You look healthy, why can't you do this! I can do a fair job of beating myself up.
Yet, I still think people should be expected to take the responsibility to inform themselves as much as they can, and I think that people should make an effort to maintain a level of open-mindedness, thoughtfulness, and humility when they make judgements about others. Especially humility. I know a fair number of people, many on this board, who could do with a dose of humility.
A
Amaris
Guest
When you get your fashion line going, you're going to have to let me know. I have large women in my family and they can't dress. Even I, as a practical fashion illiterate can see it. Put it this way: One of my Aunts wears a tube top. She's 100 lbs overweight. 'Nuff said!
J.
I totally agree with that. Because something works for one person does not mean it will work for another.
You've gotten that across, but you're missing my point on it.
It is simple. Eat better, play more. That's simple.
Simple and easy are not the same thing. The object of soccer is to kick the ball into the goal. That's very simple. Doesn't mean it's easy.
In fact, by continuing to press the point that it's "complex" is only serving to re-enforce in the minds of people who would like to lose weight that it has to be a struggle.
Don't make it harder for people than it has to be. Saying over and over that it's hard just gives people an out.
I believe that attitude is damaging. What you're unknowingly doing is providing a soft landing spot for when they fail. It's setting people up for failure, and then "there, thereing" them when they do fail.
A change in attitude about weightloss, a change from anger, self-pity and/or struggle to one of joy and ease toward the process has a far greater chance of success.
