Weight Related Discrimination

[thestrangequark]

^You have first hand knowledge about you, not about anyone else.

I totally agree with that. Because something works for one person does not mean it will work for another.

That's what I'm trying to get across. For some people it is simple, for everyone else, it's not

You've gotten that across, but you're missing my point on it.

It is simple. Eat better, play more. That's simple.

Simple and easy are not the same thing. The object of soccer is to kick the ball into the goal. That's very simple. Doesn't mean it's easy.

You say you understand my point and yet you disregard it. I know that simple and easy aren't the same thing. "Eat better, play more" is simple, and you and I both know that that simple behavior is easier for some than for others. It's the reasons behind that apparent ease or difficulty that are complex, and that mustn't be ignored. To illustrate the point, simply: I have juvenile diabetes. Eating less and playing more won't make me lose weight the way it would an unafflicted peer. Playing more increases my chance of low blood sugar. The only treatment for low blood sugar is to eat. Eating less means lowering my insulin intake, this can lead both to higher and to lower blood sugar levels, the treatment for which would be taking more insulin, or eating. Insulin as a hormone increases weight gain. Have you ever read about what type 1 diabetic athletes must go through to participate in sports? Exercise sometimes drops my blood sugar, because my cells are using up the carbohydrates in my blood, but it can also raise my blood sugar, because the liver sometimes produces its own sugar when people exercise! This situation is both difficult, and complex. If I needed to lose weight (and yeah, I'd like to drop 5 pounds -- losing weight lowers blood sugar naturally, for very complex reasons), it would be more difficult for me, not because I'm making it so, but because there are complex processes in my body that require careful reaction to control. Heck, if I lost 5 pounds, my blood sugar would lower on its own, and I'd have to modify my insulin dosage, and my diet -- how is that not complex? -- On top of being difficult?

Add to that my history of an eating disorder (diabulimia), and a mental illness that sometimes causes me to have an unrealistic understanding of my situation and capabilities, and yeah, keeping physically fit is not just hard, it's also complex.

In fact, by continuing to press the point that it's "complex" is only serving to re-enforce in the minds of people who would like to lose weight that it has to be a struggle.

Don't make it harder for people than it has to be. Saying over and over that it's hard just gives people an out.

I believe that attitude is damaging. What you're unknowingly doing is providing a soft landing spot for when they fail. It's setting people up for failure, and then "there, thereing" them when they do fail.

A change in attitude about weightloss, a change from anger, self-pity and/or struggle to one of joy and ease toward the process has a far greater chance of success.

I understand how what I've been saying might appear this way to you, but remember, my posts have been primarily directed at people, or the idea of people who are making judgements and discriminating against fat people without information or even thinking for themselves. If I were trying to encourage fat people to lose weight, I'd shift the focus a bit. My point isn't that fat people should feel helpless or feel self-pity. Neither is my point that fat people should be pitied. My point is that most people don't realize, or don't consider the many contributors there are to an individual's overweight condition. They turn it into something black and white, simple. And then assume that because it's so "simple" it must be easy.

I completely agree that when one approaches weight loss with an attitude like yours it will be easier for them to lose. But attitude might be only one aspect of, and I know I've said it a gazillion times, a complex situation, and you should recognize it as such.

 

[An Officer]

You're a fat guy aren't you? I mean otherwise you'd not be taking this so personally.

I'm neither a guy, nor overweight.

And why do people assume that only fat people are offended by the disparaging attitude toward fat people? I'm not "bio-fat" or any other kind of fat. I'm a size four! I'm offended by the negativity and nastiness with which fat people are treated because I think most of it is bred out of ignorance, and the rest out of cruelty.

Exactly. I couldn't agree with you more. I think the only way to get the message through to some people would be to see how they liked it if they were personally afflicted, perhaps with an illness, for which they had to be medicated, and which caused them to gain weight and become as large as those they currently use for target practice.

I wonder if they would still be demanding larger passengers pay double for simply taking a flight? And perhaps they wouldn't like so much being humiliated buy tactless loudmouths. I wonder how they would feel reading this thread, if they too were afflicted?

Teya talked about a large person being rude to her, is she implying all large people are rude? Perhaps because they were so cheeky as to want to take a flight, like everybody else? That singular person's rudeness, doesn't justify hers to those larger people who post/lurk here.

 

[ria 75]

Concerning metabolism, it isn't easy, and it isn't cheap, but there are ways of detoxing your body and sort of resetting it. A friend of mine did it. It required great dedication and very precise composition of meals (like no dairy products! I could never do that), + treatments with electrical devices or something.

Your body has a thing called a "liver" that takes care of all the "detox" you need, the rest of it is mumbo-jumbo sold by con artists.

Maybe so, but it worked for my friend. And absence of proof is no proof of absence. There are many things we (particularly, the public) don't know about the way our bodies work.

Although I'll confess that my personal experience with weight loss treatments is that paying for it makes you stick to the good behaviour so you didn't waste your money. But I don't know what's best in the long run. Our bodies don't like doing the yoyo. (Not that I went to any extreme personally. I don't have a weight problem, but that's a constant struggle, like Kestra said.)

Anyway, for what it's worth, the best weight loss advice I was ever given was drink at least 1.5 litre of water and/or tea every day. (Not more than 1 mug of green tea a day. It's good for eliminating, but it makes you eliminate mineral salts. And no green tea for pregnant women.) Now that I work at home, I no longer counts the mugs of tea I have per day. I have a dozen varieties. It's both good for eliminating and filling one's belly in a harmless way. Of course, if you sweeten it with real sugar... Also, artificially sweetened tea doesn't taste good. My advice is to make light tea or herb tea, so it doesn't need sweetening.
And reduce your consumption of salt. It retains water in your body.
By the way, if you're getting dehydrated, the last thing you need is salt, because its proportion in relation to water in your body is already going up. Don't believe everything old movies say!

 

[RJDiogenes]

I discriminate against fat chicks. I dont like fat women, they look disgusting. Whenever I see one I think she probably stinks and is lazy.

Given the recent events in the "Smooth" Thread and MA, and the fact that I've already commented once in this Thread, I find it hard to believe that this wasn't Posted to be deliberately inflammatory. However, in the event that you really are this clueless, I'll be generous and spell out the situation very clearly one time, and one time only: If anybody Posts anything even remotely resembling this again, they will get a Warning for Trolling.

Keep the discussion civil and on Topic, and keep all rude and insulting comments out of it.

 

[thestrangequark]

Concerning metabolism, it isn't easy, and it isn't cheap, but there are ways of detoxing your body and sort of resetting it. A friend of mine did it. It required great dedication and very precise composition of meals (like no dairy products! I could never do that), + treatments with electrical devices or something.

Your body has a thing called a "liver" that takes care of all the "detox" you need, the rest of it is mumbo-jumbo sold by con artists.

Maybe so, but it worked for my friend. And absence of proof is no proof of absence. There are many things we (particularly, the public) don't know about the way our bodies work.

I'm another who's not so quick to knock the idea of detox, at least in the form of elimination diets. I agree that detox pills, drinks, and the like are all bs, but elimination diets can be very valuable to one's health. I did a three week elimination diet, and it really helped me to see how specific foods affected my blood sugar levels both in the short and long term. My little sister's elimination diet completely changed her life: starting at puberty, she developed a terrible skin affliction. Huge, open sores began appearing all over her body -- literally one per square inch of her skin. It got worse and worse, so that by the time she was sixteen they covered all of her arms, legs, back, neck, chest, and even ears. The sores were always there, some as big as a quarter. It got so bad it was affecting not only her relationships, but her work, as people noticed and commented on the sores on her neck, ears, and wrists that were not so easily covered. Over the course of four years she saw numerous dermatologists, GPs, and wholistic doctors, who prescribed everything from steroids to oatmeal baths, but nothing helped. It wasn't until a vegan friend of her's suggested she try an elimination diet that things changed. She cut out all animal products, and other inflammatory foods (which she later reintroduced one at a time to find out the affect they had on her). Within a week her skin cleared completely. It was a shocking transformation. And by sticking to a vegan diet, she's never had a problem since (she's 22 now).

It can be very helpful, both for the purpose of weightloss and for general health, to understand how different foods affect your body.

 

[Jim Steele]

I discriminate against fat chicks. I dont like fat women, they look disgusting. Whenever I see one I think she probably stinks and is lazy. Of course I have heard the excuse, "Well I have a thyroid problem." Well I have Grave's Disease where my thyrtoid went wacko so the docs killed it with radiation and now I have to take a pill a day for the rest of my life to replace it. I gained weight, but I had the willpower to get my fat butt up and lose it. I cut out soda, ate sensibly and walked 4 miles a day and soon I dropped 25lbs in one month without some fancy diet or spending money on fancy exercise equipment.

You are only fat because you want to be fat. There is no such thing as a "fat disease."

How very christian of you.

 

[Maestro]

I will maintain that if you're unhappy with your weight, you can take steps to alter your weight, and I impress upon everyone to take healthy steps to correct your weight so you feel happy about it.

 

[thestrangequark]

^I agree. I also think that there should be better education and supports for those out there who want to live healthier, but who haven't the education, the means, or the time to do so as easily as many of us can.

 

[Amaris]

^I agree. I also think that there should be better education and supports for those out there who want to live healthier, but who haven't the education, the means, or the time to do so as easily as many of us can.

Agreed. Something unified, preferably. I mean, you can look all over the internet and find solutions but which do you choose? Does it work? How authoritative is the work? For example, how can I eat healthy (as someone with diabetes and high blood pressure) yet eat on a tight budget? There's scores of "what to eat if you're diabetic" websites, but the food's expensive and the methods time consuming. Better solutions would help me attain my goal, but I need the right instruction.


J.

 

[Sakrysta]

I've resisted posting in this thread, because I'm not really excited about the potential backlash, but here goes.

I'm overweight. I have pretty much always been overweight. My parents, bless their hearts, didn't do anything about it. I don't blame them, though I often wish they had forced me to eat healthier foods as a child so I would like them now.

I don't like being overweight, but I like less what it takes to change it. I do NOT over-eat. I probably eat less than the average person. But neither do I eat "healthy." And I don't get much exercise; I have an office job that offers very little movement, and in my spare time the last thing I want to do is get hot & sweaty. I tried the gym for a while, which ended up a waste of money because I didn't make the time to use it. I've tried cutting out sweets (what little I eat) which also does no good.

Now, I know people would say that you need the whole regimen - the balanced diet plus the exercise, and I know that. But the fact is, I'm just not interested in investing so much of my time and energy into losing weight. I'm not ballooning out of control constantly gaining weight. I stay within 10-15 pounds of the same weight. While I would like to be thinner, I am honestly not motivated to become obsessed with it, which I know from previous attempts is what it would take to make it happen. I have better things to do.

I would hate to think that because I'm overweight, people would automatically assume I'm lazy, a slob, I stink, etc. I'm none of these things. I work hard at the things I'm interested in. I bathe regularly and maintain a (somewhat) clean house. I do my best not to worry about what strangers assume about me, though. And I think it helps me not to make assumptions about strangers in return.

Not saying my lifestyle is the best when it comes to weight. Just thought I'd offer perspective from someone who doesn't have the legitimate "excuse" of bio-struggles (besides metabolism) that others do. Some of us don't mind it enough to "fix" it.

 

[pookha]

the eat less play more only works as long as your body dosnt go on the decline.
but if all of sudden you are no longer able to keep up the previous level of exercise it is pretty nasty.
add in medications like prednisone it is even more happy happy joy

 

[thestrangequark]

^I agree. I also think that there should be better education and supports for those out there who want to live healthier, but who haven't the education, the means, or the time to do so as easily as many of us can.

Agreed. Something unified, preferably. I mean, you can look all over the internet and find solutions but which do you choose? Does it work? How authoritative is the work? For example, how can I eat healthy (as someone with diabetes and high blood pressure) yet eat on a tight budget? There's scores of "what to eat if you're diabetic" websites, but the food's expensive and the methods time consuming. Better solutions would help me attain my goal, but I need the right instruction.


J.

Exactly. And clearly you are a person of intelligence and education. If you find the process difficult, imagine how it must be for some one who isn't well-educated, or perhaps speaks little English, or perhaps works two jobs to keep her kids fed. She may be bright and resourceful, but no matter her gumption she's going to have a tough time of it.

People may not believe it, but after working in public schools for nearly 8 years, I think that over the last 20 years, they have become one of the biggest factors in the rise of obesity in the country. Ask yourself why America has public schools. I'm not talking about the cynical aspects, or the controversy over how the system was developed, I'm talking about the philosophy, the idealism: we have public schools because one of the founding tenets of our society is that all men are created equal. Yet we know that not all men are given equal opportunity. The public schools are there to level the playing field, and to help improve the quality, the prosperity, and the integrity of our nation and its people by giving all its children a chance to succeed.
Of course the schools should not replace the parents, but they do have a responsibility to the whole child. Yet schools are horribly guilty of teaching children unhealthy habits. The schools I work with all provide breakfast or lunch, but the drivel they serve (a horrifying display of reheated, re-hydrated, monochromatic sludge with a side of fries), is barely better than the pathetic "lunches" I've seen parents send with their kids -- I had a student last year who brought a Gatoraid and 9 Oreo cookies to school for lunch. He was 7.
I was disturbed when I found our the children would have gym only once a week; I have students this year who don't get gym at all. Their exercise is limited to 20 minutes a day on an empty, paved lot. Add to that the deals schools make with junk food companies like Coke and Pepsi to fill their halls with soda and candy vending machines in exchange for supplies (like computers and televisions) that ought to be the responsibility of the government, and one cannot argue against the fact that we are actively teaching our children to be fat and lazy -- both directly by the garbage we're feeding them and the exercise we're denying them, and also on a more subtle, more disturbing level, by the examples we're giving them on how to cut-corners, how to find easy outs, and how to lay blame and responsibility on others instead of doing for ourselves.

That's just one facet in the tip of the iceberg of social problems that are contributing to the increase in obesity in our country. I'd like to see one person who, acknowledging these different contributors, can continue to say that the reason for people's overweight is as simple as too much food, too little exercise. It is painfully clear to me that for every fat individual, there may be a host of contributing factors at play.

People can overcome these factors, but don't expect it to be an easy ride for everyone. Here's a thought for those with disparaging attitudes toward the overweight: if obese people offend you so much, why not do something about it? Help the children who are being set on a path of fatness and laziness by their society. Coach Little League. Volunteer to teach a healthy eating course at your local community center. Lobby for better meals and health education, and well-equipped gyms and playgrounds for your public schools. Like it or not, society is in your hands -- a democracy.

 

[Barbados Slim]

I'm ok my iPhone so I can't look it up and link it, but I think a court somewhere ruled that airlines can't make big passengers buy two tickets. I heard it on NPR or something.

I don't discriminate at work against overweight people. In my personal life, I like skinny women. I just do. I find it hot.

I'm 6'3" and 215lbs. At one point I was up to 250 and I'm on a mission to see my abs before the company resort seminar in Miami in April. The reason is that I'm shallow and want the attention that being attractive brings. Because it does. Pretty people have a field day in this world. It's a proven fact. There have been studies. I see it with my older brother who is a cop and buff. I want that. It's my motivation

And that's what it's about for me. Motivation. Confidence. Overweight people tend to be less energetic and lacking in confidence. And that leads to failing the interview. I love seeing obese people who move about this world with swagger. Well dressed and charming. What I can't stand is anyone who is sloppy and full of negative energy or whining about how life's unfair. Since life is unfair for obese people the cycle perpetuates.

So I see how beauty works and want to be a part of that and I don't like lame people so there is discrimination on my part but it's not because they are fat but usually being fat brings out qualities I cannot tolerate.

 

[Holdfast]

Some of us don't mind it enough to "fix" it.

One of the most honest, fair & legitimate answers I've seen in this thread.

I'd like to see one person who, acknowledging these different contributors, can continue to say that the reason for people's overweight is as simple as too much food, too little exercise. It is painfully clear to me that for every fat individual, there may be a host of contributing factors at play.

People can overcome these factors, but don't expect it to be an easy ride for everyone.

This is all true, but the fundamental equation for the vast majority of the population that doesn't have a genuine medical reason for their obesity is still exactly the same - if you want to lose weight, you will, by eating less (and exercising more, though that's less efficient/easy since it takes a hell of a lot of exercising to burn through calories).

Not everyone cares enough about their weight to do so - fine. Everyone's priorities differ.

Some people disagree with the health benefits and so don't want to - also fine. Everyone can believe whatever they want.

But if they WANT - really, truly, deeply WANT - to lose their weight, it's not that complicated a solution and everyone, regardless of income, education or social situation knows the basics of that solution - eat fewer calories than you burn up.

To do it, you do need to prioritise the weight loss over other aspects of your life for the duration of the process, you do need to accept you will feel very hungry at time during the process, and you do need to accept that this may make you feel fed up and demotivated at times during the process. But that's the price you pay for losing weight. Once you stabilise, and change your lifestyle appropriately, the maintenance is not too hard, though has its own challenges.

If people don't feel the price is worth paying, that's a legitimate decision, and provided they've made it honestly, looking at all the facts as they believe them, then bully for them.

What I don't like seeing is when people say they want to lose weight & then deceive themselves about why they're not managing to lose it. That's a very common pattern. Admittedly though, it's not a pattern unique to weight loss - this kind of self-deception is widespread through every facet our of lives. Very, very few people see the world clearly, with no hidden defences.

 

[Jim Steele]

I've tried exercising but I can never keep it up for more than a couple of days before I completely lose interest. My problem is that I find it boring, and a hassle.

So instead I made it necessary - I get the train to work instead of the bus. The difference? The train stops a 20 minute walk away, instead of at the door. So that's 40 minutes of walking per day right there. It's cheaper too, so I'm never tempted to get the bus now.

Not brilliant, but that combined with eating what my wife eats (quorn, stir fry, wholewheat pasta bolognese, stuff like that) is working slowly. I've lost just over 25 pounds in 9 months, which I'm happy with, and the trend is still down.

And y'know what? I'm doing this for me and my family. I don't want my daughter to be burying me when she's a teenager, and I don't ever want to be in a situation where I'm unable to play with my kids. Also, I want more kids, so I need to get healthier to help with conception.

I'm not doing it to satisfy the image-obsessed cretins in our society.

 

[ThankQ]

I've resisted posting in this thread, because I'm not really excited about the potential backlash, but here goes.

This isn't backlash, I'm just not sure you can hear what you're saying and take an honest look at how you feel. It seems, from reading this, you've spent a great deal of effort rationalizing.

I'm overweight. I have pretty much always been overweight. My parents, bless their hearts, didn't do anything about it.

Uh oh, we're already on the path of transference.

I don't blame them, though I often wish they had forced me to eat healthier foods as a child so I would like them now.

Yeah, this is no good. You say you don't blame them in the very same sentence you tell us what they should have done differently.

I don't like being overweight, but I like less what it takes to change it.

I think that's honest. You don't like being fat, but you like work less. I can relate.

I do NOT over-eat. I probably eat less than the average person.

The average person (American, anyway) grossly overeats. Eating less than the average person could still be over eating. Besides, how much you eat is far less important that what you eat, as you're about to get to...

But neither do I eat "healthy."

Yeah, eating a small fry every day instead of a large doesn't get you off the "over eating" hook.

And I don't get much exercise; I have an office job that offers very little movement, and in my spare time the last thing I want to do is get hot & sweaty.

I see lots of fit people behind desks. I see lots of fat people mowing lawns and digging ditches. Employment choice is neither the cause nor the solution.

As for not wanting to exercise, that probably comes from being overweight. You have less energy than you would otherwise, and to start an exercise program, for the first few months anyway, could be totally miserable.

I tried the gym for a while, which ended up a waste of money because I didn't make the time to use it. I've tried cutting out sweets (what little I eat) which also does no good.

If you eat very few sweets, then they're not the problem, so I don't know what you're trying to accomplish by cutting them out. You should try cutting out the bad things you eat a lot of, not the bad things you rarely touch.

Now, I know people would say that you need the whole regimen - the balanced diet plus the exercise, and I know that. But the fact is, I'm just not interested in investing so much of my time and energy into losing weight.

Then don't be interested in losing weight. Be interested in your health. Be interested in your energy level. Be interested in your life.

I'm not ballooning out of control constantly gaining weight. I stay within 10-15 pounds of the same weight. While I would like to be thinner, I am honestly not motivated to become obsessed with it, which I know from previous attempts is what it would take to make it happen. I have better things to do.

You have better things to do than making improvements in your life that, in the first sentence of this post, you said you want to make?

What better things do you have to do that making your life better?

I would hate to think that because I'm overweight, people would automatically assume I'm lazy, a slob, I stink, etc. I'm none of these things.

Well, even though you say you're not a slob, even though you say you don't stink, I'm not sure we can believe that. Why? In this sentence you said you're not lazy. Uh oh...

I don't like being overweight, but I like less what it takes to change it.

But the fact is, I'm just not interested in investing so much of my time and energy into losing weight.

Not lazy?

I work hard at the things I'm interested in. I bathe regularly and maintain a (somewhat) clean house.

Okay, maybe you are clean and you smell nice. But you twice told me you're lazy before telling me you're not.

What are these interests that you're putting all this energy toward that are more important than your quality of life? That are more important than your health?

I do my best not to worry about what strangers assume about me, though.

That's good, but don't stop with strangers. Don't worry about what anyone thinks of you, friends and family included.

And I think it helps me not to make assumptions about strangers in return.

Yes, it does, now include everyone else.

Not saying my lifestyle is the best when it comes to weight. Just thought I'd offer perspective from someone who doesn't have the legitimate "excuse" of bio-struggles (besides metabolism) that others do. Some of us don't mind it enough to "fix" it.

It is possible that I'm totally off base, but it really sounds to me like you do want to change it, but you just don't want to do the work, so you've convinced yourself that you just don't really care that much.

 

[ThankQ]

I discriminate against fat chicks. I dont like fat women, they look disgusting. Whenever I see one I think she probably stinks and is lazy.

You discriminate against them or you just don't find large women attractive? I like petite women myself, but I don't discriminate.

Do you discriminate against fat men? Or is it only women who are disgusting when they're fat, because they no longer serve any purpose for your penis?

You are only fat because you want to be fat. There is no such thing as a "fat disease."

No, not fat because you WANT to be fat, but because you CHOSE to be fat.

And yes, there is such a thing as "fat disease". It's just far less common than claimed.

 

[Maestro]

Looks to me like Jim Steele is losing weight (and doing a fine job of it) for all the right reasons.

 

[darkshadow0001]

Does weight related discrimination exist? Is it right?

Yes, it exists and we as humans are not perfect and I do not think we well ever be. I don't have a problem with people who are overweight, at some point in time I was friends with some overweight people. As for dating women, and as a guy, who wouldn't want to date a good-looking female? I suppose if the right over-weight female came along and we got a long great, I probably would date them but it just wouldn't be my first choice. I don't think I'm being weight-driscrimination here because I've had plenty of women reject me for no apparent real reason. But other then the dating purpose, I don't have any real problems with over-weight people.

 

[jkladis]

When I speak to tech support and would prefer to deal with someone that's not struggling with their English, what am I?

Someone who can't stay on topic?

Unless English has something to do with your weight...

Forgive my poorly constructed analogy.

EAS is nothing to discriminate against, but I think it's fair only to prefer someone who speaks your native tongue. This is due to how the brain handles additional languages. No one can deny the challenges.