Spoilers Wednesday (Addams) Netflix Show

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Ar-Pharazon, Sep 27, 2022.

  1. Starbrow

    Starbrow Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Oh looks like this is shedding some light on the situation:
    https://deadline.com/2022/12/with-w...uts-amazon-behind-netflix-success-1235201342/

    Since filming ended in March 2022, and MGM was bought in the same month by Amazon, perhapes Amazon in light of Wednesday success will try to do next season them selves on Amazon Prime, or get more money out of Netflix. Possible right?

    It's you know, when fliming ends you would probably already know if 2nd season is happening or not, and it's been 9 month since the filming stopped, right?
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I was finally able to re-up Netflix (though I probably won't keep it more than a month, what with the price hike), and I'm halfway through this now. It's not bad, but I'm not too impressed with the acting. Jenna Ortega is pretty good and rather lovely as Wednesday, but I'm underwhelmed by Gomez and Morticia. Story-wise, it was okay at first, but at the midpoint, it feels too much like a conventional high school drama.

    It struck me that the problem with the Nevermore Academy concept is that its students aren't actually weird. I mean, yes, they're vampires and werewolves and sirens and gorgons and the like, but they act like normal people otherwise. They don't relish the macabre and creepy the way the Addamses do. I mean, this is supposed to be the Addamses' own people, their community, the place where they fit in. So why is Wednesday the only one who likes it when the school dance is drenched in blood, say? (I mean, half of them are vampires and werewolves, aren't they? So why are they upset???) The show uses the wrong kind of weirdness, making the students weird on the surface but not in their hearts. They're not Addams weird. They're not even Tim Burton weird. They're just ordinary TV teens with superpowers.

    I mean, even the school itself isn't weird. There's none of that Hogwarts spirit of building a curriculum around eccentric things like spells and potions and broomstick flying and fantastic beasts. In the TV series, Morticia was a witch from a family of witches, so logically, Wednesday should be getting an education in witchcraft. But the closest the show comes to weird education is a class on carnivorous plants, which seems to be the only class actually being taught at the school. There's just not a lot of imagination being put into the worldbuilding or characters here.


    Edit: And wow, in episode 5, what an incredibly clumsy attempt to use Enid's delayed werewolf ability as a gay metaphor when her mother tries to send her to a conversion camp to make her "normal." I mean, it's not like she doesn't want to be a wolf, she just doesn't know if or when she'll achieve it. It doesn't work at all as an allegory.

    Also, there's a delicate balance to strike in portraying the Addamses as macabre and morbid in their tastes without actually depicting them as outright killers (though the original cartoons and some bits of the Sonnenfeld movies implied that they were offscreen). This episode didn't find that balance. It tossed in the usual jokes like Morticia being excited to see Gomez arrested for murder, but otherwise wrote them as reacting to death and madness the way normal people would, as something frightening and shocking. So they were inconsistently characterized from scene to scene.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2023
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  3. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    Season 2 officially announced
     
  4. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Admiral Premium Member

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    Yay for a second season, :barf: to Amazon owning MGM. Is nothing sacred any more?

    I hope Tim Burton will be involved in some way shape or form with future seasons. His DNA was all over S1.
     
  5. Saul

    Saul Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I watched 1 episode and was bored to tears. I love the movies and the original series but this just wasn't for me. That's not to say this is a bad series or anything but...I'm not young enough for this.
     
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  6. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    I'm 40 and loved every minute of it. :shrug:
     
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  7. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Admiral Premium Member

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    I'm 55 and only saw the original series in reruns, but loved it and the movies. This is just a different take on the same concept. Darker than those earlier examples.

    To each their own.
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Well, yes and no. It rather misses the point of the series and movies, which is that the Addamses don't think of themselves as "outcasts" or have any angst about their differences from everybody else. They think they're perfectly normal, they're deliriously happy with who they are, and they're open and accepting toward everyone, even people who reject and fear them.

    It's more like it takes the Addams characters and grafts them onto a more conventional "school of monsters" premise. Although as I mentioned before, it's a rather feeble take on the premise, because it hardly does anything with the school setting, doesn't show any classes geared toward helping them master their abilities or learn magic or whatever, and has the monsters be just as afraid of blood and death and creepy stuff as ordinary people are, which doesn't make any sense. This was supposed to be the school that produced Gomez and Morticia, the place attended by people like them, but nobody here is anything like them.

    It's a moderately entertaining show, and Ortega is impressive, but the concept is a mere echo of what it could've been with more creativity put into it.
     
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  9. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Give the rest a chance.
     
  10. Starbrow

    Starbrow Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    The world makes sense again. Thank you.
     
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  11. Australis

    Australis Writer - Australis Admiral

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    Late to the party, but let's go!

    The phrase " on the borderland" springs to mind. One of the original cartoons had Morticia, presumably pregnant, knitting a onesie... with six legs.

    You are assuming Wednesday didn't starve her piranhas just enough to cause serious injury without death. That is her kind of thing.

    Werewolves, vampires, ghouls... which of them (besides Enid) hasn't murdered someone?

    Gomez: "Nevermore, I love you!" Just because we don't see people exactly like them, doesn't mean this isn't "their people".

    I'm probably old enough to be your dad, I enjoyed this immensely, and just as much on the rewatch, and the only reason I haven't rewatched a 3rd time is there's too many other things to watch (we really are in a Golden Age of TV). Don't get me wrong, I understand; I find Riverdale and nuSabrina, even large chunks of Smallville, unwatchable precisely for those reasons, so if it's not your speed, it's not your speed. There's plenty more to watch.

    As for me, great show! Jenna Ortega was as close to perfect as you're going to get, and will probably be better next season. All the cast were nearly as good. The pacing was a little uneven, but as a worldbuilding installment, it works pretty damn well.

    To me, Wednesday was much like Daria. A goth Daria. A really dark goth Daria. Her dry humour and one liners often cracked me up. "I've always hated the expression 'write what you know.' It's a hall pass for the imagination-impaired." :lol: And she's whip-smart too, if inclined to jump to the wrong conclusion.

    Personally, I'd like s2 to be Wednesday on holiday at home, contending with her stalker, weird goings on around the house, as well as schoolchums visiting. Could really open it up.
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I wasn't assuming anything -- I was answering CaptainWacky's question exactly as asked, which was whether piranhas could realistically have killed those swimmers. Serious injury is a separate question.

    But even serious injury is unlikely in a realistic scenario, because piranhas are small and their bites aren't as dangerous as the exaggerations of fiction. It's one thing to throw them a cow carcass they can feed on at their leisure, but live humans could probably escape them fairly easily, or scare them off with their flailing. Real piranhas are timid fish that travel in schools to protect themselves from predators, not to hunt in packs as in the movie myth. Their bites are more likely to be warnings to drive off attackers than attempts to kill. https://explorersweb.com/killer-piranhas-myth-or-fact/

    So realistically, stressed piranhas might bite people that they thought were attacking them, in a situation where they were forced together and the people were flailing in panic. But those bites would probably not be enough to cause serious injury or risk of death. And they wouldn't chase after a human swimming away from them. Even starving predators have a sense of self-preservation and won't risk getting themselves injured or killed if they can avoid it. And piranhas aren't predators at all, just omnivorous scavengers.


    Yes, but the fact that the story doesn't show them is exactly the problem. The story asserts that these are their people, but what it actually shows doesn't bear that out, and that's bad storytelling. It's an informed trait, like claiming that a character is a genius but having them behave unintelligently, or saying they're a great martial artist but having mediocre fight choreography (I'm looking at you, Iron Fist). A story's job is to show us things, not just claim they're the case and then show us something contradictory. It doesn't matter that the writers have Gomez say he loves Nevermore; they need to earn that by depicting Nevermore in a way that justifies that assertion. And they totally failed to do so.

    Even aside from that, just the way the students themselves were depicted was inconsistent and poorly thought out. Why the hell are vampires and werewolves terrified by the sprinkler system spraying blood? Why don't we see any classes about mastering their monster abilities, or indeed any classes at all besides the one on carnivorous plants? Why are the Addamses the only ones in this school of monsters who take pleasure in the monstrous and creepy rather than recoiling from it? Especially when the Addamses aren't monsters themselves, Lurch and Thing aside; the women in the family are witches, but Gomez is just a guy with kinky enthusiasms.

    It's just bad worldbuilding. They didn't put enough thought or care into creating the context for Wednesday to inhabit.
     
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  13. Australis

    Australis Writer - Australis Admiral

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    Well, there's y'problem right there.

    In my mind, Wednesday as a character is quite capable of fine tuning the abilities of piranhas to do whatever she wanted. It's right there in her character.

    But realistically, do you know any 13yos who can play the cello like that, have conducted autopsies, and gone through 8 schools in 4 years, or whatever it was? Naaahhh, it's unrealistic, and that's part of the fun of it.

    And we didn't see a Gomez or Morticia in Wednesday's year because... they weren't there that year? You don't get the exact same mix of students in each year.

    Dude, their pretty threads were getting ruined! It's no more complicated than that, don't overthink it.
    Not really, he says "Nevermore, I love you!" The school, not the people. Yes, an argument can be made the school is made up of people, but an argument can be made that institutions are beloved. I have no problem imagining someone saying, "Harvard, I love you!" which is nothing to do with the students.
    Because Hogwarts has already done that, you'll still need science and maths out in the world. Anyway, what would those classes be? "Care of Fangs and Claws 101"? One of my favourite writers is William Gibson, and one of the things I like is, he doesn't spoonfeed you every single nuance of the cyberpunk future, he gives a few words or phrases, and lets you fill in the gaps; done well, fans will hold remarkably consistent worldbuilding ideas.

    But that might just be me. Anyway again, don't overthink it, just have fun.
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Again: CaptainWacky asked what would "realistically" happen, as distinct from the fiction in the series. That is the question they asked, so that is the question I answered. And if you go back and read the original post in full, you'll see that I acknowledged the distinction between reality and fiction.


    You're talking about it like it actually exists and the writers had no control over what it was like. That's nonsensical. It's make-believe. Everything in it was the result of the writers' choices. I'm saying they could have made better choices that would have been more appropriate for the premise they were trying to convey.


    Thinking about things is not bad. The fact that the writers didn't think it through enough is the whole reason it fails as a creative exercise.


    I'm not saying it has to duplicate Hogwarts. I'm saying Hogwarts worked because it was an excellent exercise in worldbuilding. Rowling created a rich, textured world that was an endlessly interesting environment for the characters to inhabit. Wednesday failed to do that. It set up the concept of a weird, macabre school and then just let it sit there instead of doing much of anything with it. It was a lazy attempt at creation.


    Exactly. It was the writers' job to ask those questions and come up with interesting answers. If they'd done that work, we'd know what those classes would be.


    It's an insult to Gibson to compare his work to this. He no doubt put a lot of effort into developing his worlds even if he only put some of it on the page. You can tell the difference between a writer who's put care into the worldbuilding that remains unspoken and a writer who just lazily slaps something together without depth, because the former holds together within itself while the latter does not.
     
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  15. Australis

    Australis Writer - Australis Admiral

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    Yes, it was CaptainWacky that first used the r-word. I concur, but you did reply as if realistic piranha behaviour could be applied to this unrealistic situation.

    That's funny, I thought you were talking about it like it was more than make-believe. it's a student body, a fictitious one at that. Or to look at it from another direction, why would there be people like Gomez and Morticia there? Every year would be different.

    I can agree thinking about things is not bad. Also, the writers not thinking about them exactly the same as I would have is not a bad thing.

    If I wanted to go to Hogwarts, I'd go to Potterworld. I'm perfectly fine with what we got. Does it set up the concept of a "weird, macabre school"? Plant care and genetics, fencing (hence sport), school dance... I put it to you that they are setting students up to mix in the real world and hence not be "outsiders", rather than a magical elite whose destiny is to secretly rule the world from the shadows.

    That is merely your opinion, m'dear fellow.
     
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  16. Saul

    Saul Vice Admiral Admiral

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    OK, clearly I was wrong then. I'm not old enough for this show :p
     
  17. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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