We find the one quite sufficient

[Neopeius]

In "Who Mourns for Adonais", McCoy notes that "Scotty doesn't believe in gods."

Kirk later says, "We have no need for gods--we find the One quite sufficient."

That bit at the end feels tacked on at the last minute, a sop to censors or middle America. Does anyone know if that line was always in the script?

 

[Harvey]

Bob Justman's copy of the shooting script has Kirk's line and Apollo's preceding remarks circled in red pen with the word "NO!" written next to it. Page 45, page revision dated 5/29/67.

Not sure about previous drafts as I do not have them, nor do I have NBC's broadcast standards memos for this one.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Bob Justman's copy of the shooting script has Kirk's line and Apollo's preceding remarks circled in red pen with the word "NO!" written next to it. Page 45, page revision dated 5/29/67.

Not sure about previous drafts as I do not have them, nor do I have NBC's broadcast standards memos for this one.

Meaning No, you can't suggest atheism?

Or No, you can't say the line even with "the one quite sufficient" in there?

 

[Ragitsu]

"I'll take 'Lines which aged poorly.' for 200, Alex."

 

[Maurice]

I think NO was Justman saying "let's not go there."

 

[Joanna McCoy-Kirk]

Maybe Kirk does believe in God?

 

[Ragitsu]

Maybe Kirk does believe in God?

The royal "we", then?

 

[alchemist]

Bob Justman's copy of the shooting script has Kirk's line and Apollo's preceding remarks circled in red pen with the word "NO!" written next to it. Page 45, page revision dated 5/29/67.

Not sure about previous drafts as I do not have them, nor do I have NBC's broadcast standards memos for this one.

Kirk's line first appears in the 5/23/67 Revised Final Draft. As an FYI, the shooting draft was the Second Revised Final.

 

[Neopeius]

Kirk's line first appears in the 5/23/67 Revised Final Draft. As an FYI, the shooting draft was the Second Revised Final.

Do we have the iteration before that? If so, what changed?

 

[alchemist]

Do we have the iteration before that? If so, what changed?

Yes. The previous version is the Final Draft dated 5/15/67. The scene that we're talking about is only half as long as the one in the 5/23 version. In the Final Draft, Kirk is relatively passive in his interaction with Apollo. In the Revised Final, he's much more confrontational, more Kirk-like.

Btw, the Revised Final Draft is 10 pages longer than the Final Draft so they added quite a bit of new material to it.

 

[Neopeius]

So, it's not a line edit -- it was always meant to read the way it does, it seems.

 

[Greg Cox]

Even as a kid I always cringed at that line and assumed that it was a sop intended to appease nervous network executives. Seemed very out of place on STAR TREK.

But maybe that was just an assumption on my part.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Nobody with the revisions is answering the question. Did the script start out with Kirk sounding like an atheist, and then it got revised to add "the one"? Or was "the one" in there from the start?

 

[Metryq]

Maybe the line wandered over from the closing scene of "The Doomsday Machine"?

 

[Harvey]

@alchemist addressed that above; Kirk's "the one" line was added in a script revision dated 5/23/67. I can't speak to the specifics as I do not possess a copy of that draft.

Although the archival record that I have access to is incomplete, this doesn't appear to have been added at the behest of broadcast standards. Jean Messerschmitt sent a memo dated 5/22/67 (regarding revisions dated 5/15/67) indicating her department had no comments beyond cautions previously sent on 5/12/67.

(Alas, that earlier broadcast standards memo from 5/12/67 is NOT in the Bird papers.)

 

[Kor]

Does anyone recall some fanon notion from years back that tried to retroactively explain "The One" as some kind of 23rd-century humanist philosophy that had nothing to do with monotheism?

Or maybe I dreamed that up... "Almost like secret dreams a bored ship captain might have."

Kor

 

[Phaser Two]

Does anyone recall some fanon notion from years back that tried to retroactively explain "The One" as some kind of 23rd-century humanist philosophy that had nothing to do with monotheism?

Or maybe I dreamed that up... "Almost like secret dreams a bored ship captain might have."

Kor

Not only do I recall that as well, but I first heard of it here. I've been here about six (fun, on the boards that is) years now I think, so it was a discussion at least that recent unless I was reading an old thread.

And actually the theory does fit in with some dialogue in "Is There In Truth No Beauty," "The Way to Eden" and "The Savage Curtain," so I don't find it utterly outlandish.

 

[somebuddyX]

Kirk was just a big Babylon 5 fan.

 

[Spocko]

Watching the episode when I was a child, I’d always assumed that “the One” was another way of saying “the self,” as in Kirk and his colleagues didn’t need to reach outside themselves for guidance—they found “the One” sufficient. (It was only as I grew older that I saw a religious, monotheistic meaning in that line.)

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Does anyone recall some fanon notion from years back that tried to retroactively explain "The One" as some kind of 23rd-century humanist philosophy that had nothing to do with monotheism?

If some fans were trying to flip the meaning of "the one", it would be out of place with the entire point of Kirk's reply to Apollo, and ignoring characters who are believers, such as McCoy. This falls along the line of others who were desperately trying to explain the Christ / Son of God reference at the end of "Bread and Circuses" as not having the meaning or intent for that world as believed by countless groups of people in this one.

NBC was not "forcing" Christianity on TOS, and I seriously doubt Desilu had a hand in the references appearing in stories, either. That would assume TOS was viewed as a show where the main characters are atheists (and/or pushing atheism), when there's no evidence of disbelief in aired episodes, other than McCoy's comment about Scotty from "Who Mourns for Adonais"):

"Scotty doesn't believe in gods."

I also find the "forcing" or "pushing" kind of theory questionable in that another NBC series set in more relatable (read: then-current) times such as the popular "I Dream of Jeannie" (1965-70) was never forced to push, imply the existence of or offer Christianity as a counter to the full-on use and belief in genie magic by any of the human characters. On a series where more overt mystical power was the order of the day (and again, set in a world/times that was similar to that lived by real people) yet was not adding any direct reference to God / Christ, et al., suggests NBC or broadcast standards was not going out of their way to prod the producers of a series not reaching a far greater number of homes, certainly more than a sci-fi series with ratings problems.