We could've had the First Asian Female Captain, but no....

I thought she was much better as Troi's mother, especially in "Half a Life". She was very good in that. In TOS, she was pretty bland.

 

It's not uncommon around here for immigrants to say "American" for European-descended folk. There may be several reasons for that, none of them particularly positive.

 

Ten-forward's bartender?

 

Did the original script have the character of Ripley cower behind Captain Dallas when the dead alien facegrabber fell from the ceiling, and would the movie have still include the croach shot when Ripley was getting into the spacesuit?

 

Well considering it was the 70s so if they gave the role to say Jim Palmer I'd say yes lol.

(He was a baseball player who modeled men's underwear. Google if your brave enough)

 

I doubt either of those things were in the script at all.

 

The script says the smallest pair of panties the character can wear without cutting off circulation. At least in the second draft, after an emergency room visit they realized it was a bad idea.

 

Be glad it was Sigourney and not the Xenomorph.

 

Like you've never imagined a Xenomoroph in a pair of bikini briefs.

 

Fishnets, but not bikini briefs.

 

So you were the one who commissioned that artwork from my DeviantArt page.

 

I have specific tastes.

VERY specific.

 

I don't think an avatar has ever been more appropriate for a post.

 

I didn't have those role models as a kid. If somebody was a certain way, I imagined it - assuming I cared about their personal lives in that way. I have my own morals, which too many in the LGBT community say are "antiquated" or "unevolved". This is already borderline political, but stop making assumptions of what one needs to see on TV. I've always gone by character and story. I don't need Dave Lister or Cat to be white to appreciate them, if that makes anyone feel better. Or Uncle Phil or Vivian Banks, Ben Sisko, James and Florida Evans, or others, either. The more people consciously look at external attributes as if nothing else matters, is that a problem or isn't it? Show good characters regardless of skin color or what reproductive organs they have (or how they want to use them) instead of making a fuss over who has what as if nothing else matters? Show people being equal. More shows like "I Spy" and "Lost Girl" are needed, they showed people as equals. "I Spy" wasn't about explaining sex to anybody to begin with, and "Lost Girl", from a certain perspective, treats sex the same way one goes to a grocery store and pretends STDs don't exist. Either way, Star Trek did teach audiences not to judge a society based on its entertainment, regardless ("First Contact", season 4, TNG).

"I Spy" (1965) has Bill Cosby as one of two leads, in a spy genre show that has some humor but the drama is given the importance. It's an excellent show, especially as it was far more forward thinking in terms of actual equality. That's long before the 80s, for which I might not be the first to assume you're referring to the 1980s show "The Cosby Show" as well. I agree that, even alphabetically speaking, he should have had his name before Robert Culp's and I would say that was due to racism since, in watching the show, Robert Culp's character isn't any more of a "lead" than Cosby's is. America WAS far more racist back then and yet the show does far more than most 20xx fare regarding showing people equally without bias regardless of skin color or gender. It is worth checking out.

"Good Times" had John Amos and Esther Rolle being two black leads and that was in the early 1970s. Look up what they had to say about the show and what they wanted to bring to it. I respect what they had to say far more than any of my own opinions.

Bingo. It's not about relating to a piece of fiction on screen. It's about good characters of depth. Hero or villain, any one of us tallying up which skin color and other attributes has above everything else - that's disturbing. Period. Even Avery Brooks, in interviews, has set people straight.

I'm not straight, but straight people in shows don't bother me. Neither do gay or bi ones unless they're 2D cardboard stereotypes and the show presenting them isn't presented as a farce where stereotypes, either played into or against, is the norm.

^^this

I relate more to characterization and action and traits than skin color. Not a checklist of poorly written cardboard cutouts.

Same here. 80s and 70s too, only not nearly as many shows existed.

^^this

True. I forgot about what Whoopi said, which was largely true. And if the tables were reversed, living in that time period, I would feel the same way. I don't think many people are arguing against representation in a culture's media. But having people there and called out on what they look like (and not in a comedy where everyone is lampooned) versus having people there and people working together without traits being given self-conscious focus as if the person's skills and traits are secondary (if not less) are two different things.

Cosby and Nichols ARE groundbreaking. Whoopi's portrayal of Guinan on TNG was always compelling and compellingly written as well.

And the same cannot be said today. Why people act as if it is still 1950 when it clearly is not makes little sense.

And? Look at any politician regardless of skin color or reproductive organs being innies or outies and look at what they vote on and explanations why. Is it racist or sexist or heterophobic to presume that a non-white, non-male, non-straight will vote differently just because they're not white, male, and/or straight? There you go. Granted, "Good Times" and other shows in the 1970s had blacks calling black politicians and others various terms that non-blacks aren't allowed to say under the identical context (which also becomes racist if one race can say it but no others can... want it equal? Then make it the same for everybody and get on with life. )

 

Considering the number of times the importance of representation and privledge has been explained in this thread, I really don't have much hope that you'll ever get it, so I won't bother repeating it.

Or, maybe you do understand, but don't believe any of it is true. If that is the case, you are truly on your own.

Culp got top billing in "I Spy" because he was the show's lead character. Culp's character was the main protagonist in most of the stories particularly season one. The reason it became less obvious in later seasons, (though Culp continued to be the show's lead, technically), was because of the sheer force of Cosby's talent and likability, and the massive chemistry between him and Culp. The producers managed to focus a part of each episode on that chemistry, giving the illusion of equality between the two actors. However, had Cosby not been "Cosby", the "Scotty" character would likely have continued to be what he was always meant to be; Kelly's black sidekick.

BTW, throughout the 50's and 60's, "I Spy" was one of about 4 or 5 shows with black leads and that includes "Amos 'n Andy".

Good Times and The Jeffersons (Sanford and Son Chico and The Man etc) coincided with the blaxploitation era in cinema. People eventually stopped going to see those movies, black people included, because of the low level of the quality of those movies. Producers incorrectly concluded that the public no longer wanted to see movies fronted by black people. The real reason was because those movies were crap. But the result was movies with predominantly back casts virtually disappeared for several years. Same thing happened on TV.

When people stopped watching the "black" shows that were on in the 70's, TV producers came to the same conclusion movie people did; that it was a racial issue. This has been one of the big problems. When a white show (or movie) fails, race is never considered to be an issue. When a black show or movie fails, race is almost always perceived as a reason.

Because of constant agitation and activism things seem to be changing some. The hope is that Black Panther's multi-demographic success will dissuade producers from thinking of movies and TV shows with black leads any differently from the way they think of white led movies and shows. However, the proof will come when a big budget black led movie fails and that failure doesn't lead to the belief among producers that "well, I guess folks are once again tired of black people in movies".

I'll try to explain this as simply as possible. Lets say you have a family member who everyone in the family calls "fathead". Well, when Fathead gets into a fight with a family member, it's never over being called "fathead" because he knows that the family members have no malicious intent when they call him that name. However, some members of Fathead's family are offended by people outside of the family calling him Fathead. The main reason is because the family is not certain of the "intent" of those outside the family. This is an oversimplification but still the basics of the issue. BTW, I think your "identical context" comment is self-servingly delusional.

Now, you may not accept this, but I'm pretty sure you understand.

 

Oh, I have those ones too

 

Samuel Jackson is right. People have known this for awhile now by just looking at sports. Unless you don't think their are any racists who like watching pro leagues that have a majority or huge number of black athletes. We have had tons of black and female action stars on tv and even in comedies. Well not women so much in comedies but black males in comedy. The true victory is when you see a female "Tony Soprano or Walter White. I think it says something that today even though we got tons and tons of female lead tv shows I can only think of a handfull that match that level of complexity. and for some reason they almost are always on HBO like "Veep" and "Insecure."

I blame it partly on the old tv idea that even effects male characters who are white is that you need characters who are "likeable" instead of "Interesting or dark or eccentric." TO many characters have been created with the idea of being "normal" or be passable for a mainstream audience which robs people of seeing truly unique individuals. Then you toss in the increase amount of PC and i'm thinking it's actually hard to get even a intresting straight white guy on tv much less someone different from that where you have things like racism and sexism involved as well. At no point has any kind of art been made great by giving the artist a laundry list of things he or she can't do with their characters because if they do it will make the Jones family in Iowa feel uncomfortable or make the PC police get outraged yet again.

Things will get better as soon as people start to respect the artist ability to push the envelope which in term will bring in more diverse leads with more intresting things to do than just be a action hero because that creative freedom will encourage people to go against the status quo more and more. Excpept on CBS,NBC,ABC since those places have to deal with government censorship. It's a kind of hopless situation for the most part for those networks though it's a good thing that a few good shows somehow still slip by from time to time at those places.

Jason

 

Like Yeoh would do a silly Internet show.
What I do find funny is that both TND Bond girls have now been in Star Trek.

 

OUTRAGEOUS!