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We Bitched & Moaned About Berman, But Abrams Just As Bad In A Way?

Carpe Occasio

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
Berman was accused of messing with canon, allowing sloppy writing, reusing old story lines, making Star Trek boring. Well, Abrams certainly hasn't made it boring, but he (and his writing buddies) sure messed with canon. And they did some pretty sloppy writing and reused the worn out time travel trick (as well as falling back on the Romulans as the bad guys).

Don't get me wrong, I liked the movie, but we demonized Berman for much of what Abrams has just done.
 
Berman was the captain of a sinking ship and he didn't do anything to try and save it.

Abrams was then given command and not only has the hold been patched, but the water has been pumped out and everyone wants to ride on it.
 
I don't recall many complaints about Berman screwing with canon. But then I never was into the whole "slag off the producers" thing in any case.
 
Berman was the captain of a sinking ship and he didn't do anything to try and save it.

Abrams was then given command and not only has the hold been patched, but the water has been pumped out and everyone wants to ride on it.

But does the ship comply with international fuel quality and pollutant regulations?
 
Berman was the captain of a sinking ship and he didn't do anything to try and save it.

Abrams was then given command and not only has the hold been patched, but the water has been pumped out and everyone wants to ride on it.


And it's got Borg nanoprobes, more life boats than the Titanic and phasers that fire puls thingies instead of steady beams.

I like your metaphor. :techman:
 
Berman was accused of messing with canon.


:brickwall:

Whatever Berman put out was canon, so how he is messing with canon, please someone fill me in.

Maybe we all have different thoughts on the meaning?

I agree. Berman was in charge of Trek so that made it canon, but I said we (Trek fans in general) accused him of messing with canon. Many didn't like the direction he was going in.
 
I moan about Berman for:

1) Firing Ron Jones (who was a great Trek composer)
2) The lackluster TNG films
3) Killing Kirk off
4) Voyager
5) Enterprise
6) Keeping a stagnant/creatively bankrupt writing staff around far longer than he should have.

I don't recall any canon violations, so canon isn't really my beef with Berman. If there were any canon violations, they were not -- in my opinion -- extreme enough to moan about.
 
I'm not going to make arguing about canon the point of my post, but I'll use it as an example. The argument was always "who cares about canon/fanon as long as the story's good?" That's something I can agree with, believe it or not. I'm willing to overlook a lot of things if what I'm watching is good and entertaining. But when I watched ENT, and I only watched the first six episodes, I thought it was dull, flat, and was trying too hard. I couldn't get into it. And, if you can't get into it, you're simply not going to overlook things you otherwise might have.

Now I can point to ST XI and say, "yes, you're right, as long as the story's good and this is good!" IMO, Star Trek (2009) succeeded where Enterprise failed.

It's all in the execution.

The same with NEM. I didn't like NEM because I just thought it was a stupid, boring, and hokey movie which, like ENT, was trying too hard to be more than it was and not pulling it off. There's nothing more to it than that.

Frankly, I always thought it was stupid for some people to generally say "Oh, you're going to bitch about ST XI because you bitched about the previous productions!" That, to me, is total, complete bullshit. That's like saying "Oh, you're going to rip Batman Begins to shreds just because you ripped Batman Forever and Batman & Robin to shreds!" Total nonsense. I was okay with Batman Forever back in '95 (not so much now) but I couldn't stand Batman & Robin. But just because I didn't like Batman & Robin didn't mean I automatically wasn't going to like Batman Begins. No different from Star Trek.
 
Berman was accused of messing with canon, allowing sloppy writing, reusing old story lines, making Star Trek boring. Well, Abrams certainly hasn't made it boring, but he (and his writing buddies) sure messed with canon. And they did some pretty sloppy writing and reused the worn out time travel trick (as well as falling back on the Romulans as the bad guys).

Don't get me wrong, I liked the movie, but we demonized Berman for much of what Abrams has just done.

But BERMAN's attempt (Enterprise) didn't work because he tried to fit it in with the continuity...

And again? It doesn't matter what YOU or I think...because they really don't care (they being JJ and PARAMOUNT) They set out to reignite TREK's popularity. And if it caused TREK nerds to flip out and go crazy because of continuity this or that? THEN that is what they want, and thank God, that is what they are getting...

Threads like this complaining about continuity are just useless and, in the grand scheme of things, proof that TREK fans, some of them, need to get lives...and women (and or men)

Rob
 
It doesn't matter what YOU or I think...
Threads like this complaining about continuity are just useless and, in the grand scheme of things, proof that TREK fans, some of them, need to get lives...and women (and or men)

Rob

I agree it doesn't matter what I think. Trek producers can do what they want and it's canon because they call the shots. And I'm not complaining. I was making an observation and asking what others thought. As for life, mine is just fine. See for yourself at http://www.carpeoccasio.com
 
Sure, but Star Trek is now mainstream and cool! Yippi! ;)
Uh, pretty sure that what Gene, Bennett, Berman, JJ ,Paramount, Desilu, NBC and any one involved with the show and the films always wanted. Creating a niche show for a niche market with diminishing returns was never the idea.
 
Berman did DS9 right? I'm a fan of DS9. Well, I'm a fan of all the TV series. A few of the movies weren't so hot, imo. That episode where Sisco works with Garak to bring the Romulans into the war is a classic.
 
Berman made one good film, and some very bad ones.
JJ's made one very good film, perhaps some day we can compare them, but not yet.
 
Berman did DS9 right? I'm a fan of DS9. Well, I'm a fan of all the TV series. A few of the movies weren't so hot, imo. That episode where Sisco works with Garak to bring the Romulans into the war is a classic.

I loved DS9. And I actually liked Enterprise.
 
Abrams.
I say hang him in effigy--if he runs too fast to catch.

Berman was a saint in comparison. Hell, I LIKED most of the episodes of Berman's shows. Most of the movies too.
 
I've never really had a problem with Berman.

As for comparing him to Abrams or comparing anyone to Abrams, really, I'm not sure that's worth doing with only one film (albeit, an extremely successful one critically and financially at this moment in time) to his credit.

I don't even think I'm prepared to say Abrams saved the franchise. He's given one hell of a good shot in the arm, but time will tell if that can keep the whole thing going. It's not going to magically happen overnight. It's going to be an ongoing with him and others leading the way.
 
I don't even think I'm prepared to say Abrams saved the franchise. He's given one hell of a good shot in the arm, but time will tell if that can keep the whole thing going. It's not going to magically happen overnight. It's going to be an ongoing with him and others leading the way.

Good point. This could be a flash in the pan. It could burn itself out by the time a sequel comes around (but I doubt it).
 
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