News WB/Paramount merger talks

[Lord Garth]

Let's look at the leads of the two Star Trek shows that fandom has created petitions for in recent years. Looking at the leading characters.

SNW: Pike, played Anson Mount, born 1973 --> Generation X
Legacy: Seven, played Jeri Ryan, born 1968 --> Generation X

The breakout characters of SNW and Picard Season 3:
SNW: Chapel, played by Jess Bush, born 1992 --> Millennial
PIC S3: Shaw, played by Todd Stashwick, born 1968 --> Generation X

Stars of the greenlit projects:
SFA: Tilly (likely), played by Mary Wiseman, born 1985 --> Millennial
S31: Georgiou, played by Michelle Yeoh, born 1962 --> late Baby Boomer

So the only Boomer lead is getting a TV Movie, not a full series. And these are all the leads. The supporting casts are younger.

I think most people are happy with Picard Season 3 being the swan song for TNG. Meaning the entire TNG Crew reunited and back on the Enterprise-D, saving the day one last time. A lot of people, including myself, are happy with PIC S3 leaving things off with a better ending than Nemesis did. Sure, a lot of us wouldn't mind if we saw Jean-Luc Picard again, but there's no demand for it. "Don't mind it if happens" and "We'll create a petition to demand it happens!" aren't the same thing. They want a show with Seven of Nine and the Enterprise-G. Which is not the TNG crew. The petition has been for Legacy, not a Picard Movie.

When I signed the petition for Legacy, it was to see Seven of Nine and her crew. That's why I signed it. In addition to having already liked Picard as a whole.

Now if you were to say that Trek will die with Gen X, I'd tend to agree.

If I were to agree that Trek will die with a particular generation, Generation X is what I'd agree with. Maybe actually older Millennials, but that's splitting hairs. Either way, I could see this happening. Though I hope it doesn't.

 

[Mudd]

Wait, so the bottom line is Star Trek will die out?
I can’t see it being gone. On the other hand, Trek shows, novels, games, merch and conventions are dying off quickly now…

I was hoping for a big convention in Bozeman for First Contact when the big day comes round. That’s gonna be my first US visit.

Did Flash Gordon, John Carter, Tarzan etc. die out?

Answer: not really/yeah, sorta.

And so with Trek.

 

[Danja]

I think most people are happy with Picard Season 3 being the swan song for TNG. Meaning the entire TNG Crew reunited and back on the Enterprise-D, saving the day one last time. A lot of people, including myself, are happy with PIC S3 leaving things off with a better ending than Nemesis did. Sure, a lot of us wouldn't mind if we saw Jean-Luc Picard again, but there's no demand for it. "Don't mind it if happens" and "We'll create a petition to demand it happens!" aren't the same thing. They want a show with Seven of Nine and the Enterprise-G. Which is not the TNG crew. The petition has been for Legacy, not a Picard Movie.

When I signed the petition for Legacy, it was to see Seven of Nine and her crew. That's why I signed it. In addition to having already liked Picard as a whole.

I'm for anything that will get us to Legacy.

The Battlestar Galactica reboot first built the sets for the miniseries and then kept them through the series. Sir Patrick throwing his considerable star power in our favor can only be a good thing.

 

[Dukhat]

I'm for anything that will get us to Legacy.

The Battlestar Galactica reboot first built the sets for the miniseries and then kept them through the series. Sir Patrick throwing his considerable star power in our favor can only be a good thing.

Weren’t the PIC sets struck already?

 

[El Maestro]

I think most people are happy with Picard Season 3 being the swan song for TNG. Meaning the entire TNG Crew reunited and back on the Enterprise-D, saving the day one last time. A lot of people, including myself, are happy with PIC S3 leaving things off with a better ending than Nemesis did. Sure, a lot of us wouldn't mind if we saw Jean-Luc Picard again, but there's no demand for it. "Don't mind it if happens" and "We'll create a petition to demand it happens!" aren't the same thing. They want a show with Seven of Nine and the Enterprise-G. Which is not the TNG crew. The petition has been for Legacy, not a Picard Movie.

Yep. This is essentially what I'd like. A Seven of Nine centered Enterprise show that does the stuff talked about in the prologue in TOS and TNG. Strange new worlds, boldy going, etc. It can be a Next Next Generation by the time it's done. Let the forebears show up for some one off stuff if you want but it's the NNG/Seven stuff I'd really show up for. And I am a HUGE TNG person....

 

[Commander Troi]

Yep. This is essentially what I'd like. A Seven of Nine centered Enterprise show that does the stuff talked about in the prologue in TOS and TNG. Strange new worlds, boldy going, etc. It can be a Next Next Generation by the time it's done. Let the forebears show up for some one off stuff if you want but it's the NNG/Seven stuff I'd really show up for. And I am a HUGE TNG person....

Agreed.

 

[Danja]

Weren’t the PIC sets struck already?

Yes.

They can always give the E-G a refit.

 

[UssGlenn]

we should probably drop the "WB" from the thread title.

 

[Lord Garth]

we should probably drop the "WB" from the thread title.

I just want to know how this thread went from a discussion about a merger to a discussion about The Battle Of The Generations.

 

[El Maestro]

I just want to know how this thread went from a discussion about a merger to a discussion about The Battle Of The Generations.

Because seeing the Enterprise D again apparently broke some fans’ brains and they’re stuck in a loop

 

[Quinton]

Yeah, I was 28 when Beyond hit theaters, and I was almost assuredly the youngest at my showing.

 

[El Maestro]

Yeah, I was 28 when Beyond hit theaters, and I was almost assuredly the youngest at my showing.

This may have more to do with generational entertainment preferences over time than it does with trek.

 

[fireproof78]

we should probably drop the "WB" from the thread title.

You mean, I can't imagine worst case scenarios any more with Zaslav canceling all of Trek for all time and stealing my VHSs?

 

[El Maestro]

You mean, I can't imagine worst case scenarios any more with Zaslav canceling all of Trek for all time and stealing my VHSs?

I know that mildly sneering contrarianism is popular on TBBS (and the Internet in general) but the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, and by any measure Zaslav would be bad news for the franchise. There is no chance he will oversee any kind of creative or financial evolution for Trek. It will likely die or lay dormant for a while.

The response to this is usually, “that’s fine I have the Trek I like and we do not need/are not entitled to anything new,” but this is naive and solipsistic, and woefully ignorant of how the entertainment business works.

Trek may not have the cultural impact of something like Marvel but it does have some standing, and if you want Trek relegated to something on the level of SeaQuest or something then Zaslav is your guy.

 

[fireproof78]

The response to this is usually, “that’s fine I have the Trek I like and we do not need/are not entitled to anything new,” but this is naive and solipsistic, and woefully ignorant of how the entertainment business works.

Enlighten me, please.

Trek may not have the cultural impact of something like Marvel but it does have some standing, and if you want Trek relegated to something on the level of SeaQuest or something then Zaslav is your guy.

Assumption.

 

[Lord Garth]

I know that mildly sneering contrarianism is popular on TBBS (and the Internet in general) but the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, and by any measure Zaslav would be bad news for the franchise. There is no chance he will oversee any kind of creative or financial evolution for Trek. It will likely die or lay dormant for a while.

The response to this is usually, “that’s fine I have the Trek I like and we do not need/are not entitled to anything new,” but this is naive and solipsistic, and woefully ignorant of how the entertainment business works.

Trek may not have the cultural impact of something like Marvel but it does have some standing, and if you want Trek relegated to something on the level of SeaQuest or something then Zaslav is your guy.

25 years ago, one of my brother's friends joked, "Star Trek. When will it end?" A carpenter doing some work on our house, an older guy, overheard and said "Never!" This guy wasn't a fan at all, but his family was. So he had to put up with it, and even he knew.

Even if I'm done with Trek after Discovery ends, that's a qualified "Done for now." I'll be "done" with Trek in 2024 like I was "done" with Trek in 1999 after DS9 ended and Ron Moore gave us his three episodes of VOY.

To round this off, a frenemy of mine in high school told me "Star Trek is dying!" This was back in 1996. Nineteen Ninety-Six. Almost 30 years later, new content is still being put out and people are still saying "Star Trek is dying!" It's not and it won't. When it goes away, it always comes back.

That's how franchises work. There are always ups and downs. They just need to have something that makes as big of a splash as TOS, TNG, and the Abrams Films. All three of which, if you look at the pattern, happened a little over 20 years apart. 1966, 1987, 2009. Enough time to gain a new audience in sufficient enough numbers to replace any old audience that's lost.

TNG had fans specific to that show who didn't like previous Star Trek and didn't go on to watch DS9, VOY, or ENT. The Kelvin Films had fans specific to those films who didn't like previous Star Trek and didn't go on to watch Streaming Trek. Point is, they'll get that new audience for those specific things, then they won't stick around for spin-offs. So, if Paramount/Whoever is smart, in the future, the next time they have something as big as TOS, TNG, or the Kelvin Films, they'll keep the "mothership" series going, instead of cancelling it or stalling it out, when spin-offs continue.

 

[El Maestro]

Enlighten me, please.

*gestures broadly to the entire current media landscape*

Assumption

A conclusion based on observation.

 

[fireproof78]

*gestures broadly to the entire current modi’s landscape*

That doesn't answer the question as to how my experience as a fan will change.

A conclusion based on observation.

Insufficient evidence then.

I don't see interaction with the franchise substantially changing or becoming like Seaquest if WB takes over.

Though I do like Seaquest.

 

[El Maestro]

25 years ago, one of my brother's friends joked, "Star Trek. When will it end?" A carpenter doing some work on our house, an older guy, overheard and said "Never!" This guy wasn't a fan at all, but his family was. So he had to put up with it, and even he knew.

Even if I'm done with Trek after Discovery ends, that's a qualified "Done for now." I'll be "done" with Trek in 2024 like I was "done" with Trek in 1999 after DS9 ended and Ron Moore gave us his three episodes of VOY.

To round this off, a frenemy of mine in high school told me "Star Trek is dying!" This was back in 1996. Nineteen Ninety-Six. Almost 30 years later, new content is still being put out and people are still saying "Star Trek is dying!" It's not and it won't. When it goes away, it always comes back.

That's how franchises work. There are always ups and downs. They just need to have something that makes as big of a splash as TOS, TNG, and the Abrams Films. All three of which, if you look at the pattern, happened a little over 20 years apart. 1966, 1987, 2009. Enough time to gain a new audience in sufficient enough numbers to replace any old audience that's lost.

Thank you for a thoughtful response instead of a drive-by curt response.

These are good points but I think the one difference now is that from TOS all the way to the end of ENT, the media industry was the same/similar model for all of that time. It definitely evolved, and there were big changes in how networks and syndication worked, etc., but everything was largely variations on the same theme. Things are very different now, so I’m not sure we can be confident that downs will lead to ups and pauses won’t be permanent.

 

[El Maestro]

That doesn't answer the question as to how my experience as a fan will change.

This is the solipsism I was talking about. I’m glad you think your Trek fan cup is full and don’t need anything else. But your experience is not universal.