Ways that SNW actually improved TOS
- Thread starter Cr0sis21
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How common is it? Do Vulcans regularly contest their betrothals, or is it just that when this is done, here's how?
Koon-ut-kaliffee means "marriage or challenge," so it can go either way. Presumably people take the "challenge" option far more rarely now than they did pre-Surak, but the rules are still on the books. Indeed, it always seemed to me that they didn't bother to change the rules because the violent option was hardly ever chosen.
T'PAU: What they are about to see comes down from the time of the beginning, without change. This is the Vulcan heart. This is the Vulcan soul. This is our way. Kah-if-farr.
(Spock is about to strike the gong again, when T'Pring intervenes.)
T'PRING: Kal-if-fee!
KIRK: What is it? What happened?
T'PAU: She chooses the challenge.
MCCOY: (pointing at T'Pau's bodyguard) With him?
T'PAU: He acts only if cowardice is seen. She will choose her champion.
KIRK: Spock?
T'PAU: Do not attempt to speak with him, Kirk. He is deep in the plak-tow, the blood fever. He will not speak with thee again until he has passed through what is to come. If thee wishes to depart, thee may leave now.
KIRK: We'll stay.
T'PAU: Spock chose his friends well.
MCCOY: Ma'am, I don't understand. Are you trying to say that she rejected him? That she doesn't want him?
T'PAU: He will have to fight for her. It is her right. T'Pring, thee has chosen the kal-if-fee, the challenge. Thee are prepared to become the property of the victor?
No they don't. Kal-if-fee (the Challange) is unusual. Most go for Kal-if-farr
Modern Vulcans are more accepting of the arrangements their parents make for them that they used to be? (Logic tells them to be?) Perhaps the choices were more about power/influence/money once upon a time, but now they're more based on compatibility and logic than personal gain. A young Vulcan would have rightly rejected marriage to someone cruel or unsuitable then, but there are fewer reasons to do so now.
Perhaps it's being somewhat missed that it really was her CHOICE to invoke the ritual.
SNW certainly has shown that almost from the get go, Spock apparently became more indebted to Star Fleet than to her.
She was the part of his life that was a predetermined requirement and he was willing to follow through with it, but only with the caveat that she would understand that Star Fleet was his passion by choice.
That obviously pissed T'Pring off to no end and she retaliated for the snub.
Logic only goes so far, especially with a Vulcan Woman scorned.
SNW certainly has shown that almost from the get go, Spock apparently became more indebted to Star Fleet than to her.
She was the part of his life that was a predetermined requirement and he was willing to follow through with it, but only with the caveat that she would understand that Star Fleet was his passion by choice.
That obviously pissed T'Pring off to no end and she retaliated for the snub.
Logic only goes so far, especially with a Vulcan Woman scorned.
And it doesn't hurt that there's an alternative waiting in the wings. Spock wouldn't feel like he's leaving her open to censure, whether she's prepared to face the consequences or not. And perhaps "I prefer him to you" is better than "I prefer anybody or nobody to you".
T'Pring will always have in the back of her mind that Stonn was her fallback guy.
I pity him when the time comes that she begins to regret her life choices.
I don't believe she actually loves Stonn, he's just the means to wreak revenge on the man she truly loves, but who chose another path without her.
And Stonn will soon realize that as well.
I pity him when the time comes that she begins to regret her life choices.
I don't believe she actually loves Stonn, he's just the means to wreak revenge on the man she truly loves, but who chose another path without her.
And Stonn will soon realize that as well.
This is the culture who sent seven year olds into the desert, the kahs-wan an ordeal from the warrior days. There was tradition that transcended logic.
I'm reading D.C. Fontana's Vulcan's Glory. T'Pring is described as unusually cold (in keeping with Amok Time) even for a Vulcan (whatever that means).
Yet in Vulcan's Glory Sarek is ALSO so cold blooded that he calls Spock home to tell him to get his affairs in order (including his marriage) and makes Amanda relay his words to Spock in real time. But we LOVE Sarek!
I'm reading D.C. Fontana's Vulcan's Glory. T'Pring is described as unusually cold (in keeping with Amok Time) even for a Vulcan (whatever that means).
And in Diane Duane's Spock's World she is so unhinged by Spock's rejection that she engineer's Vulcan's secession from the Federation. And Stonn literally dies trying to please her.
Yet in Vulcan's Glory Sarek is ALSO so cold blooded that he calls Spock home to tell him to get his affairs in order (including his marriage) and makes Amanda relay his words to Spock in real time. But we LOVE Sarek!
That's nothing. In More Beautiful Than Death, Kelvinverse Stonn dies and T'Pring tries to put his katra in Spock's live body in place of Spock's own.
I think the challenge is exceeding rare.
It's a lovely quote. Because, as everyone knows, women are the scariest of all when they're mad -- if we exclude all the rl ex-boyfriends, husbands, and random guys a girl said "no thanks" to who then stalked and murdered her.
Somehow, I actually don't see Spock ever doing any of that and it really has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.
Yeah, well, bitches be crazy, amirite?
OK .. I think I get where you're going, but you are barking up the wrong tree with me.
So how about we leave the political ramifications of that tenet for conversations in the TNZ forums.
And you might want to explore my post history around here to better understand my actual real world mindset as far as that goes.
Perhaps you may have made an offbase assumption about me from a discussion about fictional characters in a fictional universe.
I'm sorry. It was not about you, or a judgment on you in particular. I've read your contributions here before and you're generally a stand-up guy. I come here to try to escape real life horrors, but they sit on my shoulders and scream in my ears.
I find this works ... occasionally ...
At least it's a distraction for a few moments.
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