Well that's what the Doctor said was the reason at any rate. I don't particularly buy it either. Do you have an alternative theory why a Dalek didn't kill or at least extract her to take her to the Crucible?
Waters of Mars Comment & Grading SPOILERS
- Thread starter WillsBabe
- Start date
I'm sorry, but what exactly did the Doctor do that was so bad?
I saw him harm no one. I saw him do nothing for personal gain, or power.
He broke what he had always THOUGHT was a law of time, but then realized WAS NOT a law of time. He saved people and time was still, apparently, on track.
You all act like the Doctor defied God Almighty Himself, and is now deserving of the punishment of death as a result.
What the fuck did he do? I don't see it.
Actually, that's exactly what he did. What we saw, for a few minutes, was a Time Lord become drunk with power. He went over to the dark side. He was going Borusa on us. It was all about personal gain and power. It was the ultimate payoff to Donna Noble's comment "You need someone to stop you". The Doctor near f'ed everything. He snapped. And it took Adelaide committing suicide to snap him out of it, to the point where he began hallucinating Ood Sigma.
This was a great episode because it pushed the Doctor to the breaking point. There really is nowhere else to go with the character, which leads in well to his regeneration and a new beginning.
Alex
I am a scientist.
There is a base on Titan, and a catastrophic meltdown is about to blow up the entire base, killing everyone on it.
The only way to save the people on the base would be if I could get a rescue ship to them before the base blows up, but WE CAN'T TRAVEL FASTER THAN LIGHT.
"HELP US!" they scream across the intercom.
"I want to, but WE CAN'T TRAVEL FASTER THAN LIGHT! It is impossible!"
I feel horrible that all these people are going to die, and there is nothing my scientific knowledge can do to save them.
Then, suddenly, an equation comes to me. I just cracked the light barrier. YOU CAN TRAVEL FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT! I am now able to get a rescue ship to the base in time, and save everyone's life. Yay!
"You went too far!" the people I saved all scream at me.
"Huh?"
"That was a law of physics! You can't travel faster than the speed of light! Now, you seem to think you can."
"I can," I say. "Aren't you happy to be alive? I did it all for you! I didn't want to let you all die!"
"You broke the law of the universe! You think you can wield such power! We were MEANT to die!"
"You are right. I have gone too far," I say. "Obviously, I am now going to die."
"Yes."
Huh? What?
How does: (a) figuring out how to do something that you thought you could not do = too far? (b) going too far = I am going to die?
^ Exactly.
Why should she be grateful for her life being saved? He pretty much told her that her dying was a major part in, not only her families future, but the future of humanity. She had to come to accept that her dying was essential in order for the future of the human race to progress to such a magnificent level.
Then he thinks 'fuck it' and saves her in spite of that. So she's left living knowing it could very well un-do everything that's supposed to come before her and not only change history (or future to her) but has the risk of harming her grand daughters legacy and the evolution of humanity itself.
And why exactly? To tick the 'win' box?
Why should she be grateful for her life being saved? He pretty much told her that her dying was a major part in, not only her families future, but the future of humanity. She had to come to accept that her dying was essential in order for the future of the human race to progress to such a magnificent level.
Then he thinks 'fuck it' and saves her in spite of that. So she's left living knowing it could very well un-do everything that's supposed to come before her and not only change history (or future to her) but has the risk of harming her grand daughters legacy and the evolution of humanity itself.
And why exactly? To tick the 'win' box?
There is no temporal prime directive. That's a different show.
Because he saved her life.
The Doctor also says at the end that history takes the same course. She gets to live and inspire her Granddaughter through living. He is able to see "everything that was, everything that is, everything that will be." (Parting of the Ways) When he says things are still on track, then that means they are. She didn't have to kill herself, and she had no reason to be upset about him saving her life.
It doesn't make sense that it would screw up the timeline. Adelaide could've still inspired her granddaughter without dying. You can do that while you are alive, you know.
Even if the grand daughter wasn't inspired, all that means is someone else would've piloted the FTL ship. No big deal. Just change the wikipedia details like we saw in this story. Humans have that drive to expand. If one person doesn't do it, another will.
Mr Awe
Is that specifically stated though ( in Ambassadors..) ? I always seemed to think they just went into Mars orbit.
The point is that for whatever reason, it wasn't so simple in this case.
Recall when Martha asking about the butterfly effect----the difficulty is that while normally that doesn't apply, at a few crucial junctures in time, it absolutely does. And that's the danger----the changes which could result from meddling in those events could be completely unpredictable even to a Time Lord.
I'm in Timelord mode right now, so I think Adelaide should have been grateful for the Doctor saving her.
The opportunity to interact with her grand daughter!
"You don't know that!"
Oh C'mon live a little.
The opportunity to interact with her grand daughter!
"You don't know that!"
Oh C'mon live a little.
Says you, but the episode says differently.
"There are laws, there are laws of time, and once upon a time there were people in charge of those laws but they died. They all died. Do you know who that leaves? Me!"
That's a great deal different from, "If I meddle in these events this will change unpredictably!"
He's saying, "I thought that no matter what, I couldn't change things, but now I think I can."
I don't see the difference. Laws are generally there to prevent people from doing things that could disrupt the status quo in dangerous ways. The Doctor thought that he was justified in taking that risk once he realized no one was around to stop him. He got lucky that the resulting change to the timeline was so minimal, but it was still a dangerously reckless course of action.
That's the impression that I've always been under too.
Funny I thought PotD was a piece of poo and that this was much, much better.
ETA -
Perhaps not scary exactly, but Blink thoroughly creeped me out. Okay, and it made my heart stop several times...
I see what you mean - yeah there was a touch of 6 in there. In fact he reminded me much more of the 6th Doc than The Master (as some are comparing him to) at that point.
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And, that's exactly what I don't buy. While neither of us are Timelords, my gut feeling at the end was that, boy, she really didn't have to die. Right or wrong, that detracted from my enjoyment somewhat. I still would give it a 4 out of 5.
Mr Awe
Exactly. I think we've even had this conversation beofre, but it went a little like this:
"You don't know that!"
"Uhm, TIMELORD, so, yes I do."
Everything he did was for personal gain. He broke a fundamental law of existance, not because he wanted to save Adelaide and her crew, not because he wanted to help, but because he didnt want to feel the pain of yet another loss.
If The Doctor can change fixed moments in time, he can do anything. He said it himself, he was without limits. Gallifrey lost in the Time War? not anymore. Rose gone? Now she's back.If he can break one rule, he can break them all.
It took Adelaides suicide to prove that he wasnt the omnipotent being he briefly thought he was. And showed him exactly what he was turning into.
Hmm, now that I think of it, there is a difficulty.
The Doctor clearly didn't intend to end up there, which means he probably just set the TARDIS controls to random. We've seen in the past that the TARDIS gravitates towards events that need the Doctor's attention, even when operating randomly.
So why did it drop him at an event he wasn't supposed to take part in?
The Doctor clearly didn't intend to end up there, which means he probably just set the TARDIS controls to random. We've seen in the past that the TARDIS gravitates towards events that need the Doctor's attention, even when operating randomly.
So why did it drop him at an event he wasn't supposed to take part in?
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