I'm sure the indigenous population would have been happy for him to have waited.So... Columbus should have waited for steam power, or iron clads, or aircraft, or GPS before he set out for the new world?
---------------
Water on mars! Go Phoenix!
- Thread starter Alpha_Geek
- Start date
---------------
I agree, once you've figured out how to leave the solar system and get to nearby stars.
During the years you're sending out automated probes to those stars, you can be doing your colonization research. If you do your research too early (like hundreds of years too early), then you risk that it's largely obsolete by the time you're ready to colonize.
Most of the exploration you're talking about was motivated by economic interests. What we're talking about doing with exploring Mars now only costs money, it doesn't promise to make any.
That's probably true. Perhaps if we ever discover inexpensive and practical interstellar transportation (and this research should be a priority, IMO) we'll figure out reasons to use it.
I do agree with this, but I don't see the need for these to be manned missions.
How about creating scientific probes that bounce around from planet to planet?
I didn't say space exploration could not be, but need not be the impetus. There are lots of other research projects that result in practical benefits too.
---------------
I never said I felt we needed proof. Personally, I think it's statistically impossible for us to be alone in the universe. The Drake equation is concept I actually gave heavy consideration to before I even knew it existed as a scientific formula.
However, I'm me. I know that what I think doesn't mean a gnat's ass bit of anything to the generally self-centered portion of mankind. Yes, denizens of an Internet BBS devoted to a science fiction program involving alien life are going to be a bit more amenable to the theory than the average Joe Sixpack. They're the ones who are going to need the proof, not us. However, one situation I often consider is what would happen to the social and political environments on Earth if we found proof of life on other planets? How would the various religions react? How would human culture change if we found evidence that we weren't it for life in this universe?
These are the kinds of questions that make interesting stories for me as a writer. The idea that we may actually face it in reality if Phoenix finds evidence frozen in the ice? Oh, I say bring it on. I want to see how Planet Earth reacts. I think you're greatly underestimating the general inability of mankind to sometimes see anything beyond the end of its own nose. We need proof for the people who don't have the minds as open as some of us.
We already are sending out probes to the outer reaches of this system and beyond. Beyond that, as has already been said far more adequately than I that interstellar mobility - and I'm still pretty doubtful it can ever be achieved -will depend upon what we learn each step of the way. Microcosmically, consider the US Space Program and it's ability to reach the moon. We didn't just up and go. It took research and mistakes then more research, with Mercury and Gemini and then Apollo. You can even set Goddard and Von Braun's work prior to all of that.
Because of the time involved in traveling to and from Mars, the more we can use the resources there will make the entire trip more efficient and possible. Whatever we learn along the way is akin to the baby steps necessary before we can run.
You seem to want that instantaneous jump to point C, without going through point B. There are no guarantees for profit or complete and absolute safety. Some risk is involved, but it's going to take at least some risk to get there. The possibility of water on Mar has already been established, but again as has already been said it's the certainty that is truly exciting. That certainty of water there makes the possibility of travel there all the closer to certainty.
Incidentally, as long as I've been a science fiction fan I am still one who is NOT yet convinced that there is life out there. Why? Because we have utterly no evidence to prove it. I recognize that there is a chance for it .... but that again is far different matter from it being a definite reality. I won't be completely surprised IF it's ever proven, but until then I'm rather skeptical.
Because of the time involved in traveling to and from Mars, the more we can use the resources there will make the entire trip more efficient and possible. Whatever we learn along the way is akin to the baby steps necessary before we can run.
You seem to want that instantaneous jump to point C, without going through point B. There are no guarantees for profit or complete and absolute safety. Some risk is involved, but it's going to take at least some risk to get there. The possibility of water on Mar has already been established, but again as has already been said it's the certainty that is truly exciting. That certainty of water there makes the possibility of travel there all the closer to certainty.
Incidentally, as long as I've been a science fiction fan I am still one who is NOT yet convinced that there is life out there. Why? Because we have utterly no evidence to prove it. I recognize that there is a chance for it .... but that again is far different matter from it being a definite reality. I won't be completely surprised IF it's ever proven, but until then I'm rather skeptical.
Well as I always say, one isn't a pattern. You can't gauge likelihood from isolated events. We may be alone. There may be millions of life bearing planets. I'm open to it either result.
TerriO said:
Yes there is a certain appeal to being iconoclastic
Watching the other team slowly forsake their beliefs or to reinterpret their scriptures to support the discovery. Or simply blaming it as the lies of the devil, and so a test of their faith before their day of judgement.But just as open mindedly, with my idealism, I am open to the possibility that maybe the scientists are wrong, and it really was an isolated act of creation, by some higher power. At its core, science is still a belief system -- scientists put their faith in empiricism; studying the logical and material.
I am open to it, as well. I just have yet to be convinced in a way that isn't overly influenced simply by the fiction I read or watch.
It must be running on TrekBBS's server.
I blame the Decepticons.
This is such a tired, wrong argument. You don't think anybody makes money off the space program? You think we turn cash into liquid fuel or something? Thousands of people are employed by the space program directly, and tens of thousands in those communities make their living off it indirectly. With this kind of argument, nobody ought to be drilling or selling oil and gas either, or engaging in any other industry.
"Mars is essentially in the same orbit... Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe."
Dan Quayle
Dan Quayle
"Mars is essentially in the same orbit... Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe."
Dan Quayle
I thought these people had people to write their speeches for them (or at least help). If he did have help, do you think they let things like that slip by just to fuck with him?
Has he not seen Total Recall?I think we should send Dan up to the red planet to test his hypothesis/hypoxia.
I don't really know how much help Quayle had available. My impression is that many of his verbal mistakes (and alledged mistakes) are along the same line as President Bush's. But unless he chose not to read speeches before giving them, I'm not sure how a writer could routinely slip in such errors.
Heck, Jim Keith let us in on this back in 78.
Jim Keith's Casebook on Alternative 3: Ufo's, Secret Societies and World Control argues that some elements of the 1977 broadcast were in fact true.
[edit] Conspiracy Theories
Alternative 3 proposed that Mars had abundant water "locked up in its soil" and that this water could be utilized by human colonists.
Imagine that, the conspiracy theorists were right! oh my. Beat the scientific community by 3 decades or so. Hee hee.
Jim Keith's Casebook on Alternative 3: Ufo's, Secret Societies and World Control argues that some elements of the 1977 broadcast were in fact true.
[edit] Conspiracy Theories
Alternative 3 proposed that Mars had abundant water "locked up in its soil" and that this water could be utilized by human colonists.
Imagine that, the conspiracy theorists were right! oh my. Beat the scientific community by 3 decades or so. Hee hee.
That's Bill O'Reilly, right?
One of the great things about actually exploring the planets is putting the lie to all the conspiracy and UFO wackiness that runs otherwise unchecked amongst the boobosie.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Martian soil appears able to support life
Taken from today's briefing, mostly. Big, big news, folks.
Since I haven't been on in a few days thanks Spaceman. It is important for NASA which needed another successful Mars mission. The standard by the rovers has been set high for future missions to the Red Planet.
It also is something to show those who don't believe water ever did or still does exist there. This apparently wasn't frozen CO2, it was frozen water ice which is important incase we ever send humans there. I'm 35 and still hope to see this before I keel over.
I admit the price is high but any mission to space will be high. I won't get into the debate on what we could better spend $450M because that is one of those Kobayashi Maru debates but I feel space/planetary exploration is very important. One thing NASA could do is something to get more kids interested in science here in the US. As much as we love space & astronomy around here, those aren't the sexy careers many are looking for.
Last edited:
