Water on mars! Go Phoenix!

[scotthm]

The sarcasm is hardly necessary. You have your opinions, while others have theirs.

I really wasn't being sarcastic, I just don't share the enthusiasm, because I think the focus of our exploratory efforts is a bit misguided.

However, considering the comparatively small budget I feel this is money well spent. Dreams, science ... and even jobs are still in demand and kept alive.

And I have no problem with spending money on pure science. It's just that I feel that our space program is focusing too much on trying to prove that microbes exist, or have existed, in our solar system, and not enough on finding ways to get man beyond the orbit of Earth, and ultimately to the stars. I guess I just don't care if there are germs on Mars or Europa.

But I suppose that something has to be done to keep the public interested in space science, so maybe I should just chalk it all up as advertising.

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[TerriO]

Personally, the implications of the possibility of finding microbes or any other signs of past life on Mars are far, far bigger than just advertising.

If we can prove that life existed on another planet, even in this solar system, the effects are going to go way beyond science. The philosophical implications alone are going to change the way mankind looks at the universe. If we can have two planets in the same relatively simple solar system where life developed, what else is out there?

 

[James Bond]

So are they going to scoop up some of the ice and put it into Phoenix's oven? Will we actually touch liquid water on another planet?

 

[scotthm]

If we can have two planets in the same relatively simple solar system where life developed, what else is out there?

Virtually everyone on this BBS, and a large portion of the population in general, is already convinced that someone else is "out there", and that's without this proof that you and others feel we must have. If experiments on Mars come up negative, we'll waste more money looking elsewhere, and many people will still be convinced that extra-terrestial life exists. Finding evidence of microbial life on Mars, or elsewhere in the solar system, will have little impact, just like not finding it so far has had little impact.

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[Lindley]

Personally, the implications of the possibility of finding microbes or any other signs of past life on Mars are far, far bigger than just advertising.

If we can prove that life existed on another planet, even in this solar system, the effects are going to go way beyond science. The philosophical implications alone are going to change the way mankind looks at the universe. If we can have two planets in the same relatively simple solar system where life developed, what else is out there?

From the other point of view, if there can be life on two planets in a single solar system, how many billions of intelligent civilizations must have arisen in various places? And what does it mean that we haven't heard radio signals (or had confirmed visits) from even one?

Kinda depressing when you look at it that way.

 

[Alpha_Geek]

Roanoke Island, St Augustine and Jamestown were tough to establish, despite the availability of water, air, food, etc right there on site for the taking. Water on Mars in large quantities will make such an effort easier if an expedition is mounted in such a way that it takes advantage of this.

At 8 pouinds per gallon, water ain't cheap to haul.

And as for that whole 95% certainty thing.. would you wanna go there knowing that there wasn't a 100% chance of you having the stuff you need to get home?

Oh, by the way.. those three colonies I mentioned? How' they start? Taxpayer money, same as this innergooglenetthingy we're all using. I'm sure that some taxpayers of the late 15th and early 16th century felt as you do.

Anyway, It'll be interesting to see how much more they find, and some of if is at less than arms length! Woot!

 

[scotthm]

And as for that whole 95% certainty thing.. would you wanna go there knowing that there wasn't a 100% chance of you having the stuff you need to get home?

Actually, I wouldn't want to go at all. I can't think of a good reason to send people to Mars, other than the bragging rights. What do you imagine might be the fruits of such a journey? (And yes, I know that predicting the future is a bit tricky. )

By the way, I watched Neil Armstrong make his "one giant leap for Mankind" on live TV, and was quite excited about it myself, even though it didn't end up having much of an impact on society.

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[P0sitr0nic]

Actually, I wouldn't want to go at all. I can't think of a good reason to send people to Mars, other than the bragging rights.

Because its THERE?

What do you imagine might be the fruits of such a journey?

The moment Humanity stops striving for knowledge is the moment we cease to be human.

 

[scotthm]

The moment Humanity stops striving for knowledge is the moment we cease to be human.

No one here has suggested that we stop striving for knowledge.

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[Zachary Smith]

Humanity will not be satisfied until it has smudged every pristine corner of the universe with its grubby fingerprints.

 

[Squiggy]

Personally, the implications of the possibility of finding microbes or any other signs of past life on Mars are far, far bigger than just advertising.

If we can prove that life existed on another planet, even in this solar system, the effects are going to go way beyond science. The philosophical implications alone are going to change the way mankind looks at the universe. If we can have two planets in the same relatively simple solar system where life developed, what else is out there?

From the other point of view, if there can be life on two planets in a single solar system, how many billions of intelligent civilizations must have arisen in various places? And what does it mean that we haven't heard radio signals (or had confirmed visits) from even one?

Kinda depressing when you look at it that way.

Don't worry...most EM signals melt into the background "noise" of the galaxy after about a light year.

 

[Jadzia]

And as for that whole 95% certainty thing.. would you wanna go there knowing that there wasn't a 100% chance of you having the stuff you need to get home?

Actually, I wouldn't want to go at all. I can't think of a good reason to send people to Mars, other than the bragging rights. What do you imagine might be the fruits of such a journey? (And yes, I know that predicting the future is a bit tricky. )

By the way, I watched Neil Armstrong make his "one giant leap for Mankind" on live TV, and was quite excited about it myself, even though it didn't end up having much of an impact on society.

Far in the future, one day our sun will bloat up and engulf the earth, flooding this land with radiation and burning off the atmosphere. If humanity is going to survive that, we need to expand our horizons.

It is a long time off, but the prospect of relocating is not at all simple. Little steps like going to the moon and going to mars might seem like futile displays of our genius, and maybe it ultimately it will be a futile effort. But for those who do think far into the future, these little steps are clearly a foundation for our long term survival.

As I said in another post: That which survives is that which has the means and the will to survive. Do you want it to happen. Can you help to make it happen? Or shall humanity just die out, and we'll have one of those big biblical endings we've written for ourselves?

 

[Data Holmes]

And as for that whole 95% certainty thing.. would you wanna go there knowing that there wasn't a 100% chance of you having the stuff you need to get home?

Actually, I wouldn't want to go at all. I can't think of a good reason to send people to Mars, other than the bragging rights. What do you imagine might be the fruits of such a journey? (And yes, I know that predicting the future is a bit tricky. )

By the way, I watched Neil Armstrong make his "one giant leap for Mankind" on live TV, and was quite excited about it myself, even though it didn't end up having much of an impact on society.

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There are two segments of humanity. The one is content to live out it's daily life and never really move beyond that. The other has the drive to explore. To push the boundaries of knowledge to the very breaking point. To stand on the edge of the cliff and lean over for a look down. A childhood sense of wonder and adventure which doesn't die off with advanced age.

There is nothing wrong with either aspect. But the latter makes life for the former. And the former supports the latter. It's a symbiotic relationship and is one of the major factors in the advancement of human civilization.


So, while you have no desire to go there, those that do will have a positive impact on your life. Advancements in science, in manufacturing processes, in political thought, in resource management, they will all help to improve life back here on earth.

 

[scotthm]

Far in the future, one day our sun will bloat up and engulf the earth, flooding this land with radiation and burning off the atmosphere. If humanity is going to survive that, we need to expand our horizons.

It is a long time off, but the prospect of relocating is not at all simple. Little steps like going to the moon and going to mars might seem like futile displays of our genius, and maybe it ultimately it will be a futile effort. But for those who do think far into the future, these little steps are clearly a foundation for our long term survival.

You're right, that day is a long time off, and when that day comes, Mars too will still be uninhabitable for Man.

The only way for humanity to survive the death of our sun is to learn how to travel to the stars efficiently. I don't think trips to our moon or to Mars really advance that science very much. The greatest contribution of such missions may be to teach us how to keep humans alive for months or years while being bombarded by radiation, and that could probably be done with high Earth orbit missions.

Se far, we haven't even been able to get a totally self contained biosphere working for the long term here on Earth, so we have a lot of science we should do here at home before we seriously consider sending men to Mars.

I think it makes a lot more sense to think in terms of another century or two before sending men to Mars (barring any unforseen breakthroughs), if you think it's really necessary.

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[scotthm]

So, while you have no desire to go there, those that do will have a positive impact on your life. Advancements in science, in manufacturing processes, in political thought, in resource management, they will all help to improve life back here on earth.

No doubt there will be scientific discoverys made along the way that may benefit us all, but space exploration need not be the impetus for such discoveries.

But as I said above, I'm not against knowledge or science, and find much of it interesting or I wouldn't be here.

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[Data Holmes]

Far in the future, one day our sun will bloat up and engulf the earth, flooding this land with radiation and burning off the atmosphere. If humanity is going to survive that, we need to expand our horizons.

It is a long time off, but the prospect of relocating is not at all simple. Little steps like going to the moon and going to mars might seem like futile displays of our genius, and maybe it ultimately it will be a futile effort. But for those who do think far into the future, these little steps are clearly a foundation for our long term survival.

You're right, that day is a long time off, and when that day comes, Mars too will still be uninhabitable for Man.

The only way for humanity to survive the death of our sun is to learn how to travel to the stars efficiently. I don't think trips to our moon or to Mars really advance that science very much. The greatest contribution of such missions may be to teach us how to keep humans alive for months or years while being bombarded by radiation, and that could probably be done with high Earth orbit missions.

Se far, we haven't even been able to get a totally self contained biosphere working for the long term here on Earth, so we have a lot of science we should do here at home before we seriously consider sending men to Mars.

I think it makes a lot more sense to think in terms of another century or two before sending men to Mars (barring any unforseen breakthroughs), if you think it's really necessary.

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So... Columbus should have waited for steam power, or iron clads, or aircraft, or GPS before he set out for the new world?

 

[LtSmash]

If we ever wish to colonize the stars then we will need some experience in colonizing planets; rather than simply sending people off in sleeper/generational/warp ships with no experience and hoping they can figure out necessary techniques before they die. A good place to start would be mars, since it's in our neighbourhood, and this discovery of water takes us one tiny step closer to that goal.

Even if you feel that the colonisation of space is a fruitless goal (and I hope particularly people from the Americas don't feel that way ) then I am of the camp that knowledge for knowledge's sake is what makes us human.

 

[Jadzia]

Well there's always the strategic staircase that we should climb (at least some of the way) before we embark on any long term goal. Questions like "Do we set sail now or wait for the tide to turn?". "Do we explore the seven seas now or develop better ships first?". "Do we spend our gold on grunts now or get more gold mining peons?"

Reinvestment can often achieve better long term results through better planning and finding an optimal time to act. But the risk is that we don't act quickly enough and end up being caught short.

With something like space travel, I can't imagine there will ever be a time when it becomes an obvious necessity to go to another star system. Until maybe, the sun starts behaving strangely, pulsating, and spuing out tonnes of radiation, at which time it's probably a lot harder to make it happen.

And who knows, our theories of cosmology might be way off, and we only have 1000 years left before the sun turns toxic. If only we had put more into space travel in the 21st century? There might be a huge asteroid heading our way instead. Who knows? Or the gods might come and there will be a flood and a fire, and our taxes should be being spent on building asbestos boats and rounding up the animals.

 

[Lindley]

The biggest benefit to a colony on Mars at the present time, as I see it, would be the push it would give to the viability of in-system spaceflight. You have to have that if you hope to ever get beyond it, after all.

Pointing a rocket very carefully and firing it is good enough for now, but we have more work to go before, say, system patrol ships are a viable possibility.

 

[jeff lebowski]

No doubt there will be scientific discoverys made along the way that may benefit us all, but space exploration need not be the impetus for such discoveries.

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Why not?

Space presents MANY problems to be solved.

Problems whose solutions could be applicable to other problems we have on earth.

Every time we do this, we learn more on HOW to do it. We learn many other things that don't necessarily have to do with the mission objective.

How much have we spent on Iraq and other Military missions in the past decade? Does anyone know? Isn't almost a trillion dollars? A trillion for destruction, death and bad blood?

NASA has what? A 17 Billion dollar budget? 17 Billion for research, learning and discovery?

A drop in the bucket for a much better cause IMO.