Watching Star Trek for the first time (again)

[The Old Mixer]

But you were comparing to the regular casts of other TV shows. If you're treating "The Cage" as a film, that's apples to oranges.

Also, the progressiveness of three women who shared scenes in the context of serving as potential baby machines is...debatable.

 

[scotpens]

I wasn't quite as enamored with Jeff Hunter's performance (my daughter immediately exclaimed, "It's the guy from The Longest Day!") but he was fine.

I guess your daughter hasn't seen King of Kings, or she would have exclaimed "It's Jesus!"

I very much appreciated that he never kissed Vina, and the show is not a romance or get-the-girl plot. Indeed, the one scene that could be called exploitative, the Orion scene, was Vina's idea, and Pike was having none of it.

I don't think it was really Vina's idea. The Talosians were calling the shots and creating the illusions. Yes, Vina says "A person's strongest dreams are about what he can't do," etc., but I'm sure the Talosians were writing the script.

 

[Neopeius]

I guess your daughter hasn't seen King of Kings, or she would have exclaimed "It's Jesus!"

That was certainly my thought!

I don't think it was really Vina's idea. The Talosians were calling the shots and creating the illusions. Yes, Vina says "A person's strongest dreams are about what he can't do," etc., but I'm sure the Talosians were writing the script.

I got the impression she was making the cues for that one.

 

[Neopeius]

But you were comparing to the regular casts of other TV shows. If you're treating "The Cage" as a film, that's apples to oranges.

K. It's good for movies of the time, too.

Also, the progressiveness of three women who shared scenes in the context of serving as potential baby machines is...debatable.

Well, we're certainly debating it.

 

[Neopeius]

Today was WNMHGB. Have to say that this was not nearly as impressive an episode (and it felt more like a TV show episode) than "The Cage". Much more like "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" -- indeed, it could have been adapted for that show. The pacing was both too fast and too slow (missing critical emotional beats but also dragging elsewhere). Shatner displays more range than Hunter, but shows little grasp for the character (the script is not his friend this show). I feel like someone like Robert Lansing would have been the best of both worlds, conveying the jaded weariness of Pike but having greater ability than Hunter.

Nimoy comes off as the wise Indian sidekick. More likeable and interesting than he was in "The Cage" but stuck within rather cliched lines.

Women fare much worse in this episode, though at least Dehner saves the day in the end.

Everything looks just a bit cheaper even if the sets are the same or similar.

Had I not seen "The Cage" I'd be quite tepid in my anticipation for the regular season. Indeed, at this point, I'd have to wonder if the crew will change dramatically every episode!

 

[T'Bonz]

There's already a "Star Trek actors in other shows" thread that pre-dates yours by many years.

If the pre-watch is done, then it should be closed and you can use the existing thread for further pics.

Agreed. This makes sense. If the pre-watch is done, the thread can be closed.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Today was WNMHGB.

To nitpick: If you're channeling the Tricon experience, WNMHG was shown first--showing it was the scheduled event. Roddenberry arranged for an unscheduled showing of his black & white work print of "The Cage" the next day, after the enthusiastic audience response to WNMHGB.

Have to say that this was not nearly as impressive an episode (and it felt more like a TV show episode) than "The Cage".

Well, the prime directive of the pilots was to get the show on the air.

Shatner displays more range than Hunter, but shows little grasp for the character (the script is not his friend this show).

"Little grasp for the character"? He made the character! The show found its dynamic, man-of-action lead, and the Shat finally found the perfect foam scenery to chew!

I feel like someone like Robert Lansing would have been the best of both worlds, conveying the jaded weariness of Pike but having greater ability than Hunter.

I liked Lansing on 12OCH, but Trek would have sunk like a stone with him as the lead.

Everything looks just a bit cheaper even if the sets are the same or similar.

That pesky ol' prime directive again.

Had I not seen "The Cage" I'd be quite tepid in my anticipation for the regular season. Indeed, at this point, I'd have to wonder if the crew will change dramatically every episode!

You shouldn't have seen "The Cage" yet...and Gene would have explained the casting differences.

 

[Neopeius]

Agreed. This makes sense. If the pre-watch is done, the thread can be closed.

I see.

Agreed. This makes sense. If the pre-watch is done, the thread can be closed.

I'm disappointed with this decision. I had made it clear that I had planned to keep the thread going through Trek and beyond. If the issue be the name, that could be changed. The thread has been popular. Please reconsider.

 

[Neopeius]

To nitpick: If you're channeling the Tricon experience, WNMHG was shown first--showing it was the scheduled event. Roddenberry arranged for an unscheduled showing of his black & white work print of "The Cage" the next day, after the enthusiastic audience response to WNMHGB.

Yeah, I found this out afterward. Ah well. I was going off fanzines and personal recollections. This explains why Asimov wasn't that impressed with what he saw, though (the second pilot).

"Little grasp for the character"? He made the character! The show found its dynamic, man-of-action lead, and the Shat finally found the perfect foam scenery to chew!

That's obvious in hindsight. In context, he's new to the part and hasn't found his legs. This isn't just my opinion -- the dozen or so folks who watched yesterday felt that way, too.

I liked Lansing on 12OCH, but Trek would have sunk like a stone with him as the lead.

We'll never know. For us, 12OCH sunk like a stone when Burke took the reins.

You shouldn't have seen "The Cage" yet...and Gene would have explained the casting differences.

That's true.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Yeah, I found this out afterward. Ah well. I was going off fanzines and personal recollections. This explains why Asimov wasn't that impressed with what he saw, though (the second pilot).

Allan Asherman gave a first-hand account of the sequence of events at the convention in the introduction to his Star Trek Compendium.

That's obvious in hindsight. In context, he's new to the part and hasn't found his legs. This isn't just my opinion -- the dozen or so folks who watched yesterday felt that way, too.

IMO, he rolled right into the role and took ownership, distinguishing himself immediately from Hunter's Pike.

We'll never know. For us, 12OCH sunk like a stone when Burke took the reins.

I won't disagree that in general the show went (gradually) downhill, which I think was in the writing in an attempt to make it less of a drama and more of an action/adventure show. But I was reminded of something since the last time Lansing vs. Burke came up. One of these actors had received two Emmy nominations for his lead role in a previous series...and it wasn't Robert Lansing.

 

[Neopeius]

Allan Asherman gave a first-hand account of the sequence of events at the convention in the introduction to his Star Trek Compendium.

Thank you.

IMO, he rolled right into the role and took ownership, distinguishing himself immediately from Hunter's Pike.

In the end, all we have are our opinions.

I won't disagree that in general the show went (gradually) downhill, which I think was in the writing in an attempt to make it less of a drama and more of an action/adventure show. But I was reminded of something since the last time Lansing vs. Burke came up. One of these actors had received two Emmy nominations for his lead role in a previous series...and it wasn't Robert Lansing.

Bully for Paul Burke. I'm still on Team Lansing.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That's obvious in hindsight. In context, he's new to the part and hasn't found his legs. This isn't just my opinion -- the dozen or so folks who watched yesterday felt that way, too.

Both the writers and the actor were trying to "find" Kirk at that point. TV is a collaborative medium. Nimoy and the writers, hadn't found Spock at that point either. The characters develop through a back and forth from all involved. Had Hunter remained, the Captain character would have developed differently and moved beyond what was seen in The Cage. Though I'm pretty sure "jaded weariness" was never going to be a permanent thing.

Fun fact. Lansing and Hunter were both married to Emily McLaughlin.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Honestly, I think Shatner was the only one to nail his character from the first moment. Kirk is energetic, warm, light but then commanding, concerned for his crew and then desperate and finally physically adept. He IS Jim Kirk from the first. Spock, Scotty and Sulu could be almost anyone (although Scotty is pretty close to the man we'll know).

 

[Maurice]

I don't see why this thread was made at all instead of just asking for the (now locked) "Galactic Journey" thread to have been retitled to be this subject and discuss the episodes as if it were 55 years ago and they were being watched for the first time.

 

[1001001]

I don't see why this thread was made at all instead of just asking for the (now locked) "Galactic Journey" thread to have been retitled to be this subject and discuss the episodes as if it were 55 years ago and they were being watched for the first time.

Since the OP has apparently decided to find his bliss elsewhere, let’s drop it, shall we?

 

[The Old Mixer]

Honestly, I think Shatner was the only one to nail his character from the first moment. Kirk is energetic, warm, light but then commanding, concerned for his crew and then desperate and finally physically adept. He IS Jim Kirk from the first. Spock, Scotty and Sulu could be almost anyone (although Scotty is pretty close to the man we'll know).

Hear, hear. And if the final captain had been Hunter, Lansing, or somebody else less dynamic than Shatner, we likely wouldn't have gotten Spock as we know him. Nimoy shaped Spock's personality to best contrast with Shatner.

 

[Phaser Two]

Since the OP has apparently decided to find his bliss elsewhere, let’s drop it, shall we?

I have been a moderator on other boards, I know how hard and thankless it is, but . . . wow, I'm not really sure why Neopeius drew so much attention there. His idea seemed fun to me. I must have missed something (happens frequently).

 

[Neopeius]

Thank you to the moderators for uniting these threads. Due to various issues, I have been unable to post for the past two weeks. I am back, however.

We had quite a number of people over for "The Man Trap" on 9-8 and then "Charlie X" on 9-15. For many folks, it was their first time; it was great getting their fresh reactions. For the rest of us, it was all about forgetting 55 years of Trek fandom and approaching things fresh.

This wasn't as hard as you might expect. Particularly for Lorelei and me, who have been watching period television as it comes out since 1959 (2014).

It did strike me how much I enjoyed "The Man Trap" and "Charlie X" more than when I watched them a decade ago. Back then, I think I rated them the equivalent of 2 stars, but this time around, on a 5 star scale, the former got 4 and the latter 3. Part of that may be the inclusion of commercial breaks. Trek was written with a certain rhythm in mind, and it gets disrupted when the mini-cliffhangers at the end of each Act are immediately resolved.

We noticed a similar phenomenon when watching Blazing Saddles in the theater after Gene Wilder died. There was a full crowd that night, and for the first time, we noticed that there were pauses in the movie after laugh lines to allow time for audience reaction. It made the movie all the funnier.

(I also sang along with Frankie Laine at the opening -- I'm a professional singer, and it was appreciated. )

Part of it may simply have been that, whatever the flaws those episodes have (and there are many), they are still head and shoulders over what was being done on TV at the time -- not just entertaining at the time but making one think long after the episode is over. Watching it once per week also gives each episode time to marinate. The lore gets built, one throwaway line at a time, until it becomes an edifice. Right now, the Enterprise, its crew, its universe are largely blank slates. I am really looking forward to reading the first fanzine in my collection (January 1967) in the context of what was known at the time.

I complained after watching the second pilot (which airs as an episode next week) that I felt Shatner, in particular, and Nimoy, to a degree, really hadn't found their roles yet. By "The Man Trap" and "Charlie X", Shatner has really gotten into the role, playing it with nuance and effectiveness. Nimoy, too, is fun to watch, if a bit arch with his dramatic sighs in the crew lounge. Kelley nails his role from the outset, as might be expected of a professional actor. Way better than "Mark" from the second pilot, and as good as Boyce from the first.

The show is featuring strong, professional women front and center, both with Nichols and Whitney. Again, an improvement on the second pilot, and welcome departures from the norm for 1966 and earlier TV.

Anyway, I will probably be shifting my focus in this thread to 1) behind the scenes thoughts as we go through Trek and 2) spotting actors after they appear in Trek, but in other contemporary shows. My first will be this weekend.

(If you're interested in our coverage of "The Man Trap", you can find it here.)

Thanks for staying tuned!

 

[Neopeius]

Here we are with the first during-Trek appearance of familiar faces. Tuning into Mission: Impossible, I was delighted to find so many cross-over staff. I knew that Trek and MI were Desilu sister shows, but I didn't realize they were twins!

And our first crossover actor, Eddie Paskey!

 

[The Old Mixer]

Trek and M:I were shooting next door to each other. M:I is a smorgasbord of familiar Trek faces.