Watching Season 2 DVD's

[Plum]

^^^
Oh yea, Spock's creepy comment at the end! Lovely comment indeed. Even worse, the scene where Rand reports the attack has her sitting, crying and hurt, surrounded by all the male authority figures, including the guy who attacked her - captain Kirk!

We like to think feminism has helped wipe away victimizing the victims since Trek's time but, not so much. Just today I was reading the report about how KBR in the Iraq greenzone threatened to fire a 22 year old female employee ... if she reported her imprisonment in a container car, under guard, for over 24 hours and raped repeatedly by her fellow employees.

Ever notice Conservative men are always afraid of something, such as women who don't behave as they "should"? Rand being surrounded by the men, the authority, and her attacker demonstrates how women are, traditionally, viewed as liars who use sex to control others. So it's not rape, it's her fault for being sexy (Which Spock's creepy comment sorta implies). It's as strong in our culture as anywhere else, unless yer under a burqua.

 

[Doug Otte]

Plum said:
^^^
Oh yea, Spock's creepy comment at the end! Lovely comment indeed. Even worse, the scene where Rand reports the attack has her sitting, crying and hurt, surrounded by all the male authority figures, including the guy who attacked her - captain Kirk!

We like to think feminism has helped wipe away victimizing the victims since Trek's time but, not so much. Just today I was reading the report about how KBR in the Iraq greenzone threatened to fire a 22 year old female employee ... if she reported her imprisonment in a container car, under guard, for over 24 hours and raped repeatedly by her fellow employees.

Ever notice Conservative men are always afraid of something, such as women who don't behave as they "should"? Rand being surrounded by the men, the authority, and her attacker demonstrates how women are, traditionally, viewed as liars who use sex to control others. So it's not rape, it's her fault for being sexy (Which Spock's creepy comment sorta implies). It's as strong in our culture as anywhere else, unless yer under a burqua.

Agreed, but it's bad in other cultures as well. Familiar w/ the case of the Saudi woman? She was w/ a male friend, and they were both beaten and gang-raped. She has been sentenced to 120 lashes for being outside w/ a man who's not her husband! The Saudi lawyer defending her has been disbarred.

Doug

 

[SlyCardie]

Season 2 of TOS rocked my face off. It might be my favorite season of Trek, but the later seasons of Deep Space 9 are at the top of my list too. I'm 25 so I don't have the perspective of some of the original Trekkies, but even to this day I'm amazed with the concepts and episodes they did for season 2. Awesome stuff.

 

[DumbDumb2007]

season 2 had some of the best stories.

 

[Plum]

Doug Otte said:

Plum said:
^^^
Oh yea, Spock's creepy comment at the end! Lovely comment indeed. Even worse, the scene where Rand reports the attack has her sitting, crying and hurt, surrounded by all the male authority figures, including the guy who attacked her - captain Kirk!

We like to think feminism has helped wipe away victimizing the victims since Trek's time but, not so much. Just today I was reading the report about how KBR in the Iraq greenzone threatened to fire a 22 year old female employee ... if she reported her imprisonment in a container car, under guard, for over 24 hours and raped repeatedly by her fellow employees.

Ever notice Conservative men are always afraid of something, such as women who don't behave as they "should"? Rand being surrounded by the men, the authority, and her attacker demonstrates how women are, traditionally, viewed as liars who use sex to control others. So it's not rape, it's her fault for being sexy (Which Spock's creepy comment sorta implies). It's as strong in our culture as anywhere else, unless yer under a burqua.

Agreed, but it's bad in other cultures as well. Familiar w/ the case of the Saudi woman? She was w/ a male friend, and they were both beaten and gang-raped. She has been sentenced to 120 lashes for being outside w/ a man who's not her husband! The Saudi lawyer defending her has been disbarred.

Doug

Good point I suppose... though conservative Saudis rule that place like tyrants while conservatives here... oh wait. I wouldn't call it a culture, more like same shit different, but much more insane, day. Saudi Arabia. What a country! Oh they have oil, shhhh.

My point is how this ep of Star Trek showed classic male authority situations over a victim. With Spock's comment suggesting Rand's desires were part of the incident. Classic stereo-typing of women as sexual objects as opposed to actual people. That's really subtle to many people but it's a part of our culture as the old Trek show demonstrates and the KBR rape victim show it's part of our culture today. The Saudis just kill people to drive the population into deep fear. They are a sick bunch, I would hope our culture doesn't sink so such depths.

 

[Trekwatcher]

I disagree with much of what has been said in this thread. TOS was NOT representative of it's time: it was AHEAD of it's time. TOS was way more progressive than other shows on the air in 1966-9. Just look at how women were treated on most dramas and westerns from the same time period to see what I mean. TOS was made before the sexual revolution got into full swing. Roddenberry put WOMEN on the bridge, he made them OFFICERS, and portrayed them as intelligent capable people as early as "The Cage."

Sure, some lines from TOS seem sexist today, but at the time it was groundbreaking TV. TOS holds up far better than many shows from the same period with regards to dated male/female interactions.

Context, people. Context.

 

[Steven Of Nine]

Trekwatcher said:
I disagree with much of what has been said in this thread. TOS was NOT representative of it's time: it was AHEAD of it's time.

OK: Challenge:

Find me another show from 1965-1970 where a man asks a woman if she found being raped interesting!

Context was everything.

Incidentally, the Saudi King pardonned that female rape victim. Didn't ask her if she found the rapists interesting, though. Progressive fellow.

 

[Plum]

^^^
I won't ask!

Trekwatcher is correct, of course. Star Trek was a hugely progressive... for a network Tv show. I'm just pointing out how cultural attitudes seep into even the most enlightened efforts.

 

[DWF]

Steven Of Nine said:
The worst example has to be in "The Enemy Within", wherein the Shadow Kirk has essentially raped Rand (as close to actual rape as they'd have allowed on tv then) and Spock mentions at the end that Rand must agree that the Shadow Kirk had many interesting qualities.

Yeah, Spock. Lovely comment.

Yeah but where Spock is concerned if he's indifferent that's just the kind of man he is.

 

[RandyS]

And here I thought this discussion was about Star Trek.

My mistake.

 

[Saxman1]

TOS was way ahead of its time and I've been a huge fan since first run. Haveing said that, I've recently been through a run of seasons 1 and 2. For the first time, it seems horribly dated to me. I can make it through about 90% of season 1, but season 2 I probably watched maybe about 12 eps total and even some of those were painful. There are certain classics like "Journey To Babel" and "Tribbles" I'll always want to see, but the majority are too dated for me, from an acting, story, effects and prop standpoint.

Next up is season 3 and I'm looking at the box saying, "Jeez, there are maybe about 5 eps I really want to watch again." Yeah, "Spock's Brain" is one of them, but only from an unintentional comedy aspect.

However, I think TOS films are still magnificent, with great stories, acting, etc. Shatner, who has a particular tendency to chew the scenery, is well-directed in all the films and delivers his best performances as Kirk.

I've also been going through TNG from the beginning and jst started season 4. I am in the minority when I say I think season 1 was better than 2 - that's another where I can only watch a handful (no, not a huge Pulaski fan at all). But by the time you get to season 3, I'm only skipping 1-3 eps per season and it doesn't really appear dated to me except for a few 80s hairstyles.

 

[Roxana]

(hello I'm new)
I agree with the comments made by TBonz about sexism.

However in a way we have sexism to thank for Star Trek - didn't they NOT want a woman captain (Number One), and thus we ended up with the enduring Shatner/Nimoy partnership?