Watching "Obsession" remasterd: Have question?

[T'Cal]

... Would it be too much to ask JJA to tell us fans what episodes are worth watching just before going to see STXI? Since he's staying within canon and many of us have TOS on DVD or VHS, it would be fun and interesting to watch them just before heading out to see the movie.

The 'early years' of James T. Kirk have him MANY places 11 years ago:

Where No Man Has Gone Before - Kirk (as a Lieutenant) was an instructor at the Academy approx. 11 years earlier and Gary Mitchell was a student.

Court Martial - 11 years earlier, Kirk served aboard the U.S.S. Republic and logged an incident regarding the ship's Atomic Matter pile that resulted in a reprimand for crewman Bejermain Finney.

Obsession - 11 years earlier Kirk servered under Captain Garrovick on the U.S.S. Faragut where he first encountered the 'Cloud Creature' and the incidents where it killed half the crew; including Garrovick.

So, please take your pick as to which 'early Kirk' storyline you want to see on screen and relate that to JJ Abrams. Kirk seemed QUITE busy when he first signed up for Star Fleet service.

You've helped to answer my original question. Thanks! Are there any other specific episodes that address Kirk's past that are worth watching before seeing the movie?

 

[Timo]

Well, watching the three mentioned by Noname would help you formulate your own opinion on Kirk's tender youth.

The only episode that actually establishes the exact date of the past event it mentions is "Obsession", where this 11-year figure comes from. "Court Martial" only states that Kirk was aboard the Republic "several years" after his early days as Academy cadet - but for all we know, that might be two days after graduation. And since Kirk is an Ensign in the story told in "Court Martial", this should take place after graduation but before "Obsession" where he is a Lieutenant.

"Where No Man" has no reference to the date of Lieutenant Kirk's instructor days, but those have to be after the "Court Martial" event as per his rank, and one would like to say they are before "Obsession" because Kirk there says his first assignment after leaving the Academy was the one aboard the Farragut. We would thus benefit from saying that Kirk stayed at the Academy (and its associated training facilities which may have included starship Republic) as instructor through his Ensign days and some time into his Lieutenantship, before shipping off with Captain Garrovick on the Farragut.

So, did all those events really happen 11 years before "Obsession"? A busy year... The earliest those could have happened is after Kirk's graduation day, and if he was 34 years old in "Deadly Years" (and not just so senile that he got even that wrong!), then he was 21 some thirteen-fourteen years earlier. And he couldn't have graduated much younger than 21, as it arguably takes four years and supposedly they don't take in people under 17 (at least not regular, non-Wesley Crusher folks, not in Picard's era anyway).

So the events would be within a time bracket of 14 to 11 years before "Obsession". Not too tightly packed after all...

You might also want to watch "Conscience of the King" that tells about dark events in Kirk's childhood, but that is more or less it. Very little was told about Kirk's background in TOS, really.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

It's also possible that some of Kirk's earlier assignments weren't very long. We're used to seeing people in the same posts for years and years, but some of Kirk's early assignments may only have been a few months, if not weeks even...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

So you'd be creating a movie "just for the fans" and not for everyone?

Good point.

 

[Phaserman]

One thing we are not considering is education in the 23rd century compared to the 21st. In our time we are thinking 4 yr college terms or going to high school for 4 yrs. Just 10yrs ago we didn't have computers for first graders in class and today we do. So maybe kids in the future are genetically a lot smarter and will have different graduation requirements and maybe someone can graduate in one year, etc. This morning I saw on the Today Show with Matt Laur a 14 yr old that graduated high school earlier and already has a college degree teaching college students. Maybe Kirk got out of school at a early age.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

So you'd be creating a movie "just for the fans" and not for everyone?

Good point.

Really? Seemed like a rather "pointless" point, and not at all "good."

But at least you didn't put "Absolutely Right (tm) " which is something I s'pose....

 

[Gepard]

But at least you didn't put "Absolutely Right (tm) " which is something I s'pose....

Absolutely Right (tm) he didn't!

 

[22 Stars]

I think the film would be well served to show us Kirk before the events mentioned in Concience of the King, and then after. I'm sure he was a much different kid before he left earth for the colony and witnessed the (necessary?) horrors that occurred at the hands of Governor Kodos.

 

[M'Sharak]

I think the film would be well served to show us Kirk before the events mentioned in Concience of the King, and then after. I'm sure he was a much different kid before he left earth for the colony and witnessed the (necessary?) horrors that occurred at the hands of Governor Kodos.

Since a 14-year-old actor has been cast as "Young Kirk", I'd say that there's a possibility you may see something like that.

Edit:

There's also a TrekMovie article.

 

[DeafPoet]

Well, if I were in charge of the franchise...

This movie would not involve Enterprise at all (except, maybe, when Pike shows up to pick up his junior science officer after the trainee crew gets into trouble and Kirk saves their collective bacon!). It would be focused on Lieutenant Kirk and the Kobayashi Maru... (both the test, the consequences of the test, and a "real world application" of the test's principle, which would be the MAIN focus of the film!)

The next film would involve Kirk on the Farragut, and would involve Garrovick heavily.

The next film after that would involve Commander Kirk and his first command, the destroyer-type USS Alexander, and would have a massive "crossover" element with Enterprise which would result in the soon-to-be-promoted Pike deciding to recommend Kirk as his successor.

And that's where I'd leave this "recast" crew by the sidelines... stopping things just before the original series started.

In the meantime, I'd have tried to spin-off the officers and crew of the "training ship" from this first movie into a series of their own.

The tone would be much different than we know in the first movie... sort of like Lucas did with "Phantom"... but would be NEARLY what we remember by the third movie. (I'm not saying that the SW prequel flicks were great, but I think that Lucas's STYLISTIC approach made sense!)

The fanboy in me likes this idea but the fact is, anybody who's not reading this message board doesn't care about that shit. It's a Star Trek movie. Consequently, it has James Kirk commanding the Enterprise. That's all anybody's looking to see at the end of the day.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Well, if I were in charge of the franchise...

This movie would not involve Enterprise at all (except, maybe, when Pike shows up to pick up his junior science officer after the trainee crew gets into trouble and Kirk saves their collective bacon!). It would be focused on Lieutenant Kirk and the Kobayashi Maru... (both the test, the consequences of the test, and a "real world application" of the test's principle, which would be the MAIN focus of the film!)

The next film would involve Kirk on the Farragut, and would involve Garrovick heavily.

The next film after that would involve Commander Kirk and his first command, the destroyer-type USS Alexander, and would have a massive "crossover" element with Enterprise which would result in the soon-to-be-promoted Pike deciding to recommend Kirk as his successor.

And that's where I'd leave this "recast" crew by the sidelines... stopping things just before the original series started.

In the meantime, I'd have tried to spin-off the officers and crew of the "training ship" from this first movie into a series of their own.

The tone would be much different than we know in the first movie... sort of like Lucas did with "Phantom"... but would be NEARLY what we remember by the third movie. (I'm not saying that the SW prequel flicks were great, but I think that Lucas's STYLISTIC approach made sense!)

The fanboy in me likes this idea but the fact is, anybody who's not reading this message board doesn't care about that shit. It's a Star Trek movie. Consequently, it has James Kirk commanding the Enterprise. That's all anybody's looking to see at the end of the day.

See, that's exactly 180 degrees from what I think that "non-trekkies" care about.

They don't care about "Kirk has to be on the bridge of the Enterprise" at all. They don't even care that it's Kirk, really. They care about an interesting story where they can see change, growth, and real consequences. All the stuff that makes for DRAMA, rather than mere melodrama.

You're looking at what I suggested through the perspective of someone who's a Trek fan. And as a result, you see it and think "trivia." But that's not in ANY way what this is about.

The average person want to not know how the story is going to turn out. They want to see characters who may, or may not, survive... ie, real jeopardy. They want to see situations where they won't know, in advance, how things are going to turn out in the end.

They want to see a STORY... not "another planet of the week."

The stuff I posted was really my take on (as a few astute guys picked up on) turning "Kirk" back into "Hornblower."

Honestly, most people are BORED TO TEARS with "The new captain of the month" sitting on a fancier blinky-light-clad set doing the same damned thing that every other captain has done.

I'm suggesting a break in that formula. That's not "pandering to fanboys" as far as I'm concerned. I find the idea that "everyone wants Kirk on the bridge of the Enterprise with the whole gang, doing the same thing all over again" to be far more "fanboyish," personally.

Does that make sense?

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

"Where No Man" has no reference to the date of Lieutenant Kirk's instructor days, but those have to be after the "Court Martial" event as per his rank, and one would like to say they are before "Obsession" because Kirk there says his first assignment after leaving the Academy was the one aboard the Farragut. We would thus benefit from saying that Kirk stayed at the Academy (and its associated training facilities which may have included starship Republic) as instructor through his Ensign days and some time into his Lieutenantship, before shipping off with Captain Garrovick on the Farragut.

It may be my memory playing tricks on me, but doesn't Kirk actually say that Garrovick was his CO from the day he left the academy? Is it possible that he shipped out with Garrovick on the Republic and later transferred with his captain to the Farragut? And then, after the Cloud Incident, returned to the Academy for post-Graduate studies, ie Command school or some such thing, during which time he taught undergrad courses and met Mictell?

Just my thoughts on the subject. Kirk's background is a bit of a mess to get straight.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

It seems that a great deal is happening in this movie.

One thing to see, since we KNOW they are filming in a place that could stand in for Iowa, could be something before he moves to Tarsus IV and his encounter with Kodos.

Another possibility is that Iowa is just after those events, and might spur him into entering Starfleet Academy, so that he can somehow "make a difference".

To me, this heart-to-heart with George Kirk Sr. might provide some insight into how he gets started towards becoming the James Kirk we know.

 

[Kryton]

I also was thinking about the executioner-tyrant from "The Conscience of the King" as a point in Kirk's past worth exploring somewhat.

Kirk may have started out as Horatio Hornblower (which made the Ioan Griffud tv-movies especially interesting), but he quickly turned into something very different, IMO.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

I also was thinking about the executioner-tyrant from "The Conscience of the King" as a point in Kirk's past worth exploring somewhat.

Kirk may have started out as Horatio Hornblower (which made the Ioan Griffud tv-movies especially interesting), but he quickly turned into something very different, IMO.

The only reason I'd doubt this would be that I'd assume that a character like Kodos would probably be one of those castings we'd have heard about.

Of course, there's also the argument that others (not me, necessarily) would make, about it being "fanwanky." It's certainly true that it doesn't seem NECESSARY to telling the story (though I can imagine it being referred to).

(By the way, the scenes that everyone's assuming are in Iowa... they COULD be on Tarsus, since nobody here really knows much about what that planet would be like.)

 

[Kryton]

But they don't have to CAST Kodos to illustrate the atrocities he committed. The fact the Kirk was able to later ID him visually was irrelevant to the situation he apparently grew up in. No actual appearance by the character is necessary to the point.

 

[Franklin]

But they don't have to CAST Kodos to illustrate the atrocities he committed. The fact the Kirk was able to later ID him visually was irrelevant to the situation he apparently grew up in. No actual appearance by the character is necessary to the point.

True. And I think Orci has said there are some choice references in the movie that TOS fans will get.

As it is though, everyone stresses how this is an extremely action-packed movie. To that end, it'll be interesting to see how much TOS-based exposition is truly worked into it.
Five minutes into the movie, a mention of Kodos. Ten minutes in, a mention of Gary Mitchell. Fifteen minutes in, a meniton of Carol Marcus. Twenty minutes in, a mention of Captain Garrovick. If things like that keep going on, it could get tedious after a while, really. Exposition is not good for action.

 

[pookha]

i always wondered after it was announded this was a academy movie if it was a period of time that kirk returned to the academy to be an instructor after what happend to farragutt.
perhaps he would go through a period of time were he loses his desire to exploree and faith in himself and this movie could partially address about how he rediscovered both.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I think the film would be well served to show us Kirk before the events mentioned in Concience of the King, and then after. I'm sure he was a much different kid before he left earth for the colony and witnessed the (necessary?) horrors that occurred at the hands of Governor Kodos.

"Academy: Collision Course" (Pocket, Oct 07) by William Shatner with Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens.

 

[Therin of Andor]

If things like that keep going on, it could get tedious after a while, really. Exposition is not good for action.

I'm expecting any exposition will be done in the "Lost" style. Some may call "Lost" tedious, but others find it compelling television.