Watching it about the killer gaseous cloud I noticed Spock said to McCoy that Kirk was a young leutenant on his mission 11 yrs prior. He was under Captain Garrovick and Kirk said to McCoy that Garrovick was his commanding officer since day one from leaving the Academy. I wonder if the actor named Faqir that is playing the heroic unnamed Starfleet Captain is really Garrovick and we will see the Cloud battle? As a matter of fact we have to see Garrovick.
Watching "Obsession" remasterd: Have question?
- Thread starter Phaserman
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I certainly can't think of anything more exciting and dramatic than a big-budget cloud battle.
Well, the writers behind the script range from casual to uber on the fan scale. Plus they've said it fits into the established canon. Only time will tell whether our speculation holds any water.
I watched "Obession" last night and had the same thought. In that episode, eleven years later, Kirk openly calls Captain Garrovick the finest man he ever knew.
Now that doesn't mean we need to see the "cloud battle" or whatever, but maybe a mention of Garrovick? Some other scene?
I won't lose sleep over it if he's not in the story. But compared to other canon issues that are in shades of gray, it's clearly obvious in "Obsession" that Garrovick was incredibly important to young Kirk. And, this is an origins story. So, it's a valid question.
Now that doesn't mean we need to see the "cloud battle" or whatever, but maybe a mention of Garrovick? Some other scene?
I won't lose sleep over it if he's not in the story. But compared to other canon issues that are in shades of gray, it's clearly obvious in "Obsession" that Garrovick was incredibly important to young Kirk. And, this is an origins story. So, it's a valid question.
Could you be referring to Faran Tahir, whose casting has been the subject of some speculation here?
I also wonder whether we really do need to see Captain Garrovick and the Cloud battle? With all the places, people and events which "have to be in this movie", the sucker could get really crowded.
I think Franklin may have the better idea. Perhaps a mention of Garrovick's name, as Kirk heads off to report for his first posting, would suffice. We'll know what it means.
Yes, I was refering to him. I think that it has to be an issue since a young leutenant who hesitated to fire and the result was 200 + dead including the captain would have a profound effect on him since Garrovick was his mentor. In Obssession 11 years later McCoy or I think Spock said to Kirk that it made no diference when Kirk fired the phasers that the inevitable would have happened to the crew. Kirk seemed relieved. They say Faran Tahir will have a meaty role that is heroic. Maybe we will see him trying to out maneuvere the Cloud in a futile desperate attempt to save his crew on the Farragut. It could be a brief scene but vital to Kirks earlier mental state after the incident. He was very Obsessed last nigh in the episode so much that McCoy and Spock addressed it to him.
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Well, if I were in charge of the franchise...
This movie would not involve Enterprise at all (except, maybe, when Pike shows up to pick up his junior science officer after the trainee crew gets into trouble and Kirk saves their collective bacon!). It would be focused on Lieutenant Kirk and the Kobayashi Maru... (both the test, the consequences of the test, and a "real world application" of the test's principle, which would be the MAIN focus of the film!)
The next film would involve Kirk on the Farragut, and would involve Garrovick heavily.
The next film after that would involve Commander Kirk and his first command, the destroyer-type USS Alexander, and would have a massive "crossover" element with Enterprise which would result in the soon-to-be-promoted Pike deciding to recommend Kirk as his successor.
And that's where I'd leave this "recast" crew by the sidelines... stopping things just before the original series started.
In the meantime, I'd have tried to spin-off the officers and crew of the "training ship" from this first movie into a series of their own.
The tone would be much different than we know in the first movie... sort of like Lucas did with "Phantom"... but would be NEARLY what we remember by the third movie. (I'm not saying that the SW prequel flicks were great, but I think that Lucas's STYLISTIC approach made sense!)
This movie would not involve Enterprise at all (except, maybe, when Pike shows up to pick up his junior science officer after the trainee crew gets into trouble and Kirk saves their collective bacon!). It would be focused on Lieutenant Kirk and the Kobayashi Maru... (both the test, the consequences of the test, and a "real world application" of the test's principle, which would be the MAIN focus of the film!)
The next film would involve Kirk on the Farragut, and would involve Garrovick heavily.
The next film after that would involve Commander Kirk and his first command, the destroyer-type USS Alexander, and would have a massive "crossover" element with Enterprise which would result in the soon-to-be-promoted Pike deciding to recommend Kirk as his successor.
And that's where I'd leave this "recast" crew by the sidelines... stopping things just before the original series started.
In the meantime, I'd have tried to spin-off the officers and crew of the "training ship" from this first movie into a series of their own.
The tone would be much different than we know in the first movie... sort of like Lucas did with "Phantom"... but would be NEARLY what we remember by the third movie. (I'm not saying that the SW prequel flicks were great, but I think that Lucas's STYLISTIC approach made sense!)
All good points. Would it be too much to ask JJA to tell us fans what episodes are worth watching just before going to see STXI? Since he's staying within canon and many of us have TOS on DVD or VHS, it would be fun and interesting to watch them just before heading out to see the movie.
A lot of this idea appeals to me -- it really echoes the format of the Hornblower books (an admitted inspiration for Trek), which taken together show the entire scope of one officer's professional life, from a teenaged midshipman to a retired admiral (and Lord). One of the things that I dislike about the TOS movies is how they show the same clump of officers sticking together so obsessively, doing the same jobs for decades (except for Chekov's brief stint as Reliant's XO, but even he seemed perfectly happy to go back to the same job he had as an ensign afterward), and ultimately (for me) giving the impression of an insular little clique rather than professional officers in a large service.
I guess my point is, I like the idea of a series of movies: "Mr. Midshipman Kirk", "Lieutenant Kirk," "Kirk and the Alexander," "Kirk and the Enterprise," "Commodore Kirk" and so forth -- but this time focus only on Kirk (or maybe Kirk and Spock), and let all of the characters have careers. In a later movie, have Admiral Kirk out there leading a task force, with Captain Spock as one of the captains under his command (as Forester did with Hornblower and his XO), but bring in new characters and new configurations each time.
Just my 2 cents.
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The 'early years' of James T. Kirk have him MANY places 11 years ago:
Where No Man Has Gone Before - Kirk (as a Lieutenant) was an instructor at the Academy approx. 11 years earlier and Gary Mitchell was a student.
Court Martial - 11 years earlier, Kirk served aboard the U.S.S. Republic and logged an incident regarding the ship's Atomic Matter pile that resulted in a reprimand for crewman Bejermain Finney.
Obsession - 11 years earlier Kirk servered under Captain Garrovick on the U.S.S. Faragut where he first encountered the 'Cloud Creature' and the incidents where it killed half the crew; including Garrovick.
So, please take your pick as to which 'early Kirk' storyline you want to see on screen and relate that to JJ Abrams. Kirk seemed QUITE busy when he first signed up for Star Fleet service.
Where No Man Has Gone Before - Kirk (as a Lieutenant) was an instructor at the Academy approx. 11 years earlier and Gary Mitchell was a student.
Court Martial - 11 years earlier, Kirk served aboard the U.S.S. Republic and logged an incident regarding the ship's Atomic Matter pile that resulted in a reprimand for crewman Bejermain Finney.
Obsession - 11 years earlier Kirk servered under Captain Garrovick on the U.S.S. Faragut where he first encountered the 'Cloud Creature' and the incidents where it killed half the crew; including Garrovick.
So, please take your pick as to which 'early Kirk' storyline you want to see on screen and relate that to JJ Abrams. Kirk seemed QUITE busy when he first signed up for Star Fleet service.
Good point! Besides, if this new effort were a Kirk-fest, I'd be the first to be too busy to go see the movie. I know some fans are fan-atic about a particular character, but it IS an ensemble cast.The 'early years' of James T. Kirk have him MANY places 11 years ago:
Where No Man Has Gone Before - Kirk (as a Lieutenant) was an instructor at the Academy approx. 11 years earlier and Gary Mitchell was a student.
Court Martial - 11 years earlier, Kirk served aboard the U.S.S. Republic and logged an incident regarding the ship's Atomic Matter pile that resulted in a reprimand for crewman Bejermain Finney.
Obsession - 11 years earlier Kirk servered under Captain Garrovick on the U.S.S. Faragut where he first encountered the 'Cloud Creature' and the incidents where it killed half the crew; including Garrovick.
So, please take your pick as to which 'early Kirk' storyline you want to see on screen and relate that to JJ Abrams. Kirk seemed QUITE busy when he first signed up for Star Fleet service.
As a former military man, I agree that it is absurd for so many in a crew to stick together, but isn't that also what we love about the TOS characters? They stick together through thick and thin, space monsters, aliens, war and even death/rebirth (Spock). How many of us envy them for this? I do.
I suppose there's a certain segment of the general audience that would find the notion of Kirk playing a 23rd century video game appealing. Spy Kids was certainly a successful franchise.
Personally, I'll take the cloud battle. It worked for Hulk and the last Fantastic Four movie.
I'l have to take your word for that. I didn't see either of those movies because I heard they sucked.
You're referring to anything on "Hulk" as having succeeded?
For the record, I wasn't suggesting anything to the effect of an entire movie about "Kirk playing a video game." Rather, I'm talking about a "bookend" movie to "The Wrath of Khan," which was also all about the Kobayashi Maru, as you may recall... but is widely acknowledged as the very best of the Trek movies. Hardly a movie about playing a video game.
If I were doing this film (and hey, you never know, I might be!), it would start off with a brief backstory of Jim Kirk, telling about how his the death of his father (a starfleet officer) drove him into the service, for all the wrong reasons... and why he was an overdriven, over-serious "stack of books with legs" but not really the sort of man who would be followed by his troops into battle. And how he'd try to cheat on a test, because of his fear of failure... get caught... nearly get cashiered out... and get assigned to the worst possible "trainee cruise" instead of getting one of the "cushy" positions (like Saavik later got!) but instead got assigned to a really bad tour... that just happened to lead into a REAL LIFE "no win scenario" where he finally proves his mettle... and finds a better way of thinking in the process... makes a new friend or two (who will later on join him on his first major command posting!) from the most unlikely of characters... and generally comes out much closer to the guy we know than he starts out as.
That's not a movie about "playing a video game" either. Is it?
Would you want to watch that?
Or would you rather watch Ang Lee's "Hulk?"
Considering how quickly the cloud "ate" the redshirts in "Obsession", I don't think much happened 11 years earlier either.
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Especially not if it has a funny name like "Mutara Nebula."
Battle in a cloud ≠ battle with a cloud.
So you'd be creating a movie "just for the fans" and not for everyone?
Please explain how you got that from what I said.So you'd be creating a movie "just for the fans" and not for everyone?
That's like me saying "I sure hope that they leave the sky on Earth as blue, instead of making it purple with pink polka-dots" and you responding by saying "So you want to involve massive puppy-barbequing in the movie?"
Your conclusion is such a TOTAL non-sequitor that I can only assume you're trying to pick a fight. But rather than bite, I'll ask you to explain HOW you manage to come to that conclusion, rather than just throwing out raw meat (as you just did) in the hopes that I'll bite.
For the record, though... just to be 100% clear... what I suggested would in NO WAY WHATSOEVER be "just for the fans, and not for everyone." Just to be clear.
SO... what makes you say that?
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