Watched Insurrection all the way through

[Photon]

not THAT bad and they did give a little lip service to DS9. The thing w/Worf (still) bothers me. Still don't know why he breaks away from the war to join the Ent in what seems an unimportant mission and when he's aboard there's no sorrow that he just lost his wife nor mention of it.

Insurrection was released long before Jadzia died.

Not so fast.

ST:Ins was released on 12/1/98
Tears was released for broadcast 06/17/98

Yes they could have been shooting Ins during the making of Tears but a little colaboration goes a long ways

 

[Anwar]

Not if it were competently done.

Not really, they would've wondered where these bad guys came from and why there were no mention of them in First Contact or otherwise. Having Picard talk about them as if they'd always been around for the last few years would have made the non-DS9 audience feel out of the loop.

Also, the DS9 writers may not have appreciated having to mention the events of INS or have Picard and co do anything major during the war.

I think it'd easily be possible to explain who the Dominion are as well as the Borg were explained in FC. Sure, you wouldn't appreciate them as much if you hadn't seen the Dominion War eps, but same goes for FC and the Borg eps (BoBW most notably)

Except TNG was more mainstream, well known, and BOBW was more well-known as well. DS9 and the Dominion, not so much. And like I said, the DS9 writing team probably wouldn't have liked the TNG movies doing anything with the Dominion because they'd have to reference it in the show.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Except TNG was more mainstream, well known, and BOBW was more well-known as well. DS9 and the Dominion, not so much.

This.

However...

And like I said, the DS9 writing team probably wouldn't have liked the TNG movies doing anything with the Dominion because they'd have to reference it in the show.

You keep saying this, yet you have zero evidence of it unless you can read minds. Why would the DS9 folks care whether or not they referenced TNG? They referenced events of specific TNG episodes while the series was still on the air. Your characterization of the DS9 producers doesn't match any known reality.

 

[Timo]

Why are we assuming that ST:INS took place during the war? Or at any other specific time, for that matter?

The movie has no stardates anywhere. It doesn't feature any references to any events from any other movies or TV shows. While the Son'a get mentioned in DS9, there is no pressing reason to think that either the INS or the DS9 mention would precede the other in the in-universe chronology.

It thus seems natural to assume that the movie takes place some time after the war. That way, our TNG heroes can freely perform long missions of zero military worth without being shot for deserting. It also becomes more plausible that they completely fail to mention the war. And the plot makes more sense: the UFP can be in cahoots with the Son'a, while during the war it would be impossible to fraternize with somebody who aids and abets the Dominion; and the UFP diplomats can be negotiating with the Dominion, which they certainly wouldn't while the fighting was still going on (since the Dominion had demonstrated such complete lack of trustworthiness in "Statistical Probabilities").

IMHO it was a splendid choice not to insert any cross-references between the movie and the various TV shows. Not only did it give dramatic freedom to the people writing the TV shows, it also brought credibility to the INS plotline that simply wouldn't have been there if the writers had insisted that it take place during the war.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[RyuRoots]

Except TNG was more mainstream, well known, and BOBW was more well-known as well. DS9 and the Dominion, not so much.

This.

However...

And like I said, the DS9 writing team probably wouldn't have liked the TNG movies doing anything with the Dominion because they'd have to reference it in the show.

You keep saying this, yet you have zero evidence of it unless you can read minds. Why would the DS9 folks care whether or not they referenced TNG? They referenced events of specific TNG episodes while the series was still on the air. Your characterization of the DS9 producers doesn't match any known reality.

And there was a reference to the Enterprise-E before First Contact in Trials and Tribble-ations (pretty sure it was before, anyway, but I could be wrong). Watching DS9, I never got the impression they minded tie-ins to TNG

 

[Photon]

Why are we assuming that ST:INS took place during the war? Or at any other specific time, for that matter?

The movie has no stardates anywhere. It doesn't feature any references to any events from any other movies or TV shows. While the Son'a get mentioned in DS9, there is no pressing reason to think that either the INS or the DS9 mention would precede the other in the in-universe chronology.

It thus seems natural to assume that the movie takes place some time after the war. That way, our TNG heroes can freely perform long missions of zero military worth without being shot for deserting. It also becomes more plausible that they completely fail to mention the war. And the plot makes more sense: the UFP can be in cahoots with the Son'a, while during the war it would be impossible to fraternize with somebody who aids and abets the Dominion; and the UFP diplomats can be negotiating with the Dominion, which they certainly wouldn't while the fighting was still going on (since the Dominion had demonstrated such complete lack of trustworthiness in "Statistical Probabilities").

IMHO it was a splendid choice not to insert any cross-references between the movie and the various TV shows. Not only did it give dramatic freedom to the people writing the TV shows, it also brought credibility to the INS plotline that simply wouldn't have been there if the writers had insisted that it take place during the war.

Timo Saloniemi

Ridiculous
Why would K-white be mentioned during the movie then?

 

[Navaros]

It's obvious that INS took place during the war and Picard and the Enterprise weren't doing jack during the war. The only plausible explanation is that they just didn't care about the war, or Picard was told not to go near it due to being incompetent at combat missions, as alluded to in the TNG episode where he denigrates the idea of a Captain performing combat.

 

[DWF]

It's obvious that INS took place during the war and Picard and the Enterprise weren't doing jack during the war. The only plausible explanation is that they just didn't care about the war, or Picard was told not to go near it due to being incompetent at combat missions, as alluded to in the TNG episode where he denigrates the idea of a Captain performing combat.

You have no proof of this. And how could Picard be called incompetent after he just saved the earth from the Borg threat?

 

[Navaros]

You have no proof of this. And how could Picard be called incompetent after he just saved the earth from the Borg threat?

Of course there's proof of it, INS itself is the proof, and also the fact that the Enterprise is never seen or mentioned on DS9 during the war, not even in the last assault in WYLB when they thew everything they had at the Dominion; if it was doing more than jack all, it would have been.

As for the Borg, they weren't nearly so tough to overcome as first believed.

 

[DWF]

You have no proof of this. And how could Picard be called incompetent after he just saved the earth from the Borg threat?

Of course there's proof of it, INS itself is the proof, and also the fact that the Enterprise is never seen or mentioned on DS9 during the war, not even in the last assault in WYLB when they thew everything they had at the Dominion; if it was doing more than jack all, it would have been.

As for the Borg, they weren't nearly so tough to overcome as first believed.

That's not proof of anything, not every DS9 was about the war, did you think they just forgot about the war to play a game of baseball in one of hte holosuites? If the Borg weren't so tough why'd it take Picard's knowledge of them to defeat them? One cube was more than taking care of the fleet set against it including the Defiant.

 

[Anwar]

Guys, it's Navaros. He hates all Trek except for DS9 and TOS so naturally he'll make up nonsense to make Picard look bad. Just ignore what he says.

As for what Hober asked, Behr and Wolfe both have made comments to the negative about TNG which would fit the whole "DS9 didn't want to be tied with TNG very much" thing.

 

[nx1701g]

Except TNG was more mainstream, well known, and BOBW was more well-known as well. DS9 and the Dominion, not so much.

This.

However...

And like I said, the DS9 writing team probably wouldn't have liked the TNG movies doing anything with the Dominion because they'd have to reference it in the show.

You keep saying this, yet you have zero evidence of it unless you can read minds. Why would the DS9 folks care whether or not they referenced TNG? They referenced events of specific TNG episodes while the series was still on the air. Your characterization of the DS9 producers doesn't match any known reality.

They seemed pretty pissed when it was suggested to include the Defiant in First Contact. That was, mainly, because Berman's original plan was to have it destroyed and the DS9 writers said: "We'll simply ignore it."

And, like Anwar said, they didn't like referencing TNG much and you can see it mainly with interviews Behr did. He made fun of TNG a lot in his interviews and I believe he even opposed putting Worf in the series (I recall reading that somewhere but I'm not sure - I think it was in the Companion).

 

[JarodRussell]

In Insurrection it's explicitly stated that the Federation is in peace negotiations with the Dominion.

I say Insurrection is placed within What you leave behind. Between the final battle at Cardassia and the signing of the peace treaty between Federation and Dominion.

 

[bigdaddy]

I just pretend ST7-8-10 never happened, the Enterprise D was destroyed in the war, and that the 9 takes place after the war and Wolf has gotten over his lost wife and decided to visit some friends.

 

[Photon]

In Insurrection it's explicitly stated that the Federation is in peace negotiations with the Dominion.

I say Insurrection is placed within What you leave behind. Between the final battle at Cardassia and the signing of the peace treaty between Federation and Dominion.

Vreenak said when comparing the Dominion forces w/Feds, something to the effect that....we already the Federation has sent out peace feelers

So no it could actually be during the war.

 

[nx1701g]

I recall reading that it's believed that the events of Insurrection take place during It's Only a Paper Moon and Prodigal Daughter during the 7th Season, but that's only a theory.

 

[Photon]

I recall reading that it's believed that the events of Insurrection take place during It's Only a Paper Moon and Prodigal Daughter during the 7th Season, but that's only a theory.

Very plausible.