Was there a need for an alternate timeline?

[Ian Keldon]

I love how this new Trek is tied to the old - it gives nuTrek the rich, deep universe without any of the continuity bog-downs (aside from the ancient history of Enterprise which doesn't impact anything).

It gives us some huge continuity frak-ups as well, however. Primarily centered around Spock Prime and his failure to attempt to restore the timeline back to as close to original condition as possible, as was his duty under Federation Prime's regulations (not the least of which is the Temporal Prime Directive).

 

[FarStrider]

I love how this new Trek is tied to the old - it gives nuTrek the rich, deep universe without any of the continuity bog-downs (aside from the ancient history of Enterprise which doesn't impact anything).

It gives us some huge continuity frak-ups as well, however. Primarily centered around Spock Prime and his failure to attempt to restore the timeline back to as close to original condition as possible, as was his duty under Federation Prime's regulations (not the least of which is the Temporal Prime Directive).

If there is a such thing as an alternate universe, then there is no "continuity 'frak-up.' " This new universe had at least 25 years of history before Spock even got there. It has it's own separate history by then. Who is Spock to say that the history of THAT universe is invalid and should be more like his own? Who is he to say that his universe is the RIGHT one? What gives him that right? He is not God. His true obligation under the Prime Directive would be to let this Universe play out its own history. But we all know how many times the Prime Directive is ignore in the Star Trek universe when it gets in the way of a good story.


~FS

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I find it fascinating that Star Trek canon was sufficient to absorb its own reboot, in the form of an alternate timeline. Few other franchises can lay claim to that!

 

[Therin of Andor]

his failure to attempt to restore the timeline back to as close to original condition as possible, as was his duty under Federation Prime's regulations...

How does he do that? No more black hole. No more red matter. Marooned by Nero. A slingshot round the sun would have deposited him elsewhere in the new timeline.

He got Kirk into the centre seat, and all the key players, even Scotty, into the correct place. Best he could manage under the circumstances.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

his failure to attempt to restore the timeline back to as close to original condition as possible, as was his duty under Federation Prime's regulations...

How does he do that? No more black hole. No more red matter. Marooned by Nero. A slingshot round the sun would have deposited him elsewhere in the new timeline.

He got Kirk into the centre seat, and all the key players, even Scotty, into the correct place. Best he could manage under the circumstances.

Additionally, how could Spock Prime take on the Narada at the earliest possible time, without changing the history of the Kelvin away from the Prime timeline?

 

[Shazam!]

No they should have just called it what it was, a reboot/reimagining. I really liked the new movie but the story gymnastics they went through to try and connect it to the "prime" universe was just stupid and unnecessary.

For real.

The whole alternate universe conceit means that I don't give a single shit about what happens to the characters because the 'real' (for lack of a better word before some rabid idiot comments) Kirk and co. are getting along just fine in the Prime universe.

It's like watching a big mirror universe episode.

 

[beamMe]

I love how this new Trek is tied to the old - it gives nuTrek the rich, deep universe without any of the continuity bog-downs (aside from the ancient history of Enterprise which doesn't impact anything).

It gives us some huge continuity frak-ups as well, however. Primarily centered around Spock Prime and his failure to attempt to restore the timeline back to as close to original condition as possible, as was his duty under Federation Prime's regulations (not the least of which is the Temporal Prime Directive).

Is it time to post this

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02LgdXVkXgM[/yt]

again?

 

[F. King Daniel]

I love how this new Trek is tied to the old - it gives nuTrek the rich, deep universe without any of the continuity bog-downs (aside from the ancient history of Enterprise which doesn't impact anything).

It gives us some huge continuity frak-ups as well, however. Primarily centered around Spock Prime and his failure to attempt to restore the timeline back to as close to original condition as possible, as was his duty under Federation Prime's regulations (not the least of which is the Temporal Prime Directive).

Even if Spock didn't know about the alternate universe thing and in fact one history had been rewritten (although the filmmakers and novels like "Watching the Clock" and "The Needs of the Many" say otherwise), and if I may borrow a quote, "Who is to say that this history is any less proper than the other?" This universe had been evolving for 25 years by the time he arrived. Vulcan has been destroyed but Romulus now has ample warning of their forthcoming catastrophe. To restore the timeline would be dooming his adopted home.

As for any other continuity issues, they're no different from those in The Motion Picture - namely that everything looks different/more modern. Which is really no different than recasting a character.

 

[The Castellan]

No they should have just called it what it was, a reboot/reimagining. I really liked the new movie but the story gymnastics they went through to try and connect it to the "prime" universe was just stupid and unnecessary.

For real.

The whole alternate universe conceit means that I don't give a single shit about what happens to the characters because the 'real' (for lack of a better word before some rabid idiot comments) Kirk and co. are getting along just fine in the Prime universe.

It's like watching a big mirror universe episode.

Felt more like watching a Mirror Universe story, myself. Would not be surprised to see a sword thrust into the Starfleet symbol and Spock with a beard, eventually.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I think it would have just been easier to say "this is a re-imagining".

I think there'd have been much anger from a larger group of complainers.

Meh. So instead we have (probably) that same group of fans nit-picking all of their perceived inconsistencies associated with the idea that the Alt-universe diverged from the prime in 2233. I think the complaint level between this Alt-universe and just an overt re-imagining would have been about the same.

The purpose of the Alt-universe was to untie the hands of the writers so they could do what they wanted, but I think the Alt-universe still constrains them more than if they would have just rebooted.

I think they would have had the same level of complaints, but they would be freer to do what they want. Now, those nit-pickers will be back in force for this next film, finding every little problem with the writer's alt-universe theory. WSith a reboot, you force some fans (the ones who want to raise a stink) to bite that bitter pill once, and then you move forward.

 

[Set Harth]

his failure to attempt to restore the timeline back to as close to original condition as possible, as was his duty under Federation Prime's regulations...

How does he do that? No more black hole. No more red matter. Marooned by Nero. A slingshot round the sun would have deposited him elsewhere in the new timeline.

He got Kirk into the centre seat, and all the key players, even Scotty, into the correct place. Best he could manage under the circumstances.

Was going to say this but couldn't find the right words. I concur.

 

[M'Sharak]

No they should have just called it what it was, a reboot/reimagining. I really liked the new movie but the story gymnastics they went through to try and connect it to the "prime" universe was just stupid and unnecessary.

For real.

The whole alternate universe conceit means that I don't give a single shit about what happens to the characters because the 'real' (for lack of a better word before some rabid idiot comments) Kirk and co. are getting along just fine in the Prime universe.

Inoright? This must be... what, the twenty-seventh time, now, that you've come in for the express purpose of not giving that very same shit?

Since you'll no doubt continue not giving it, you should probably arrange to have it bronzed as a keepsake. It could even—some day—become a treasured family heirloom.

 

[Set Harth]

Shit. It's the gift that keeps on not giving.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

...because the 'real' (for lack of a better word before some rabid idiot comments) Kirk and co. are getting along just fine in the Prime universe.

Fat, old, mostly dead. Clearly some variant definition of "fine" that's of limited utility.

Okay, Old Spock isn't dead - he's still very active, but in a newer Universe.

 

[Dukhat]

Felt more like watching a Mirror Universe story, myself.

Really? How?

 

[The Castellan]

Felt more like watching a Mirror Universe story, myself.

Really? How?

Besides getting a more millitant feel from it, the characters felt like charactures of the originals, etc.

 

[The Wormhole]

Felt more like watching a Mirror Universe story, myself.

Really? How?

Besides getting a more millitant feel from it, the characters felt like charactures of the originals, etc.

I agree with you about the characters, but "getting a more militant feel?" TOS is a very militant show. There can be no question that at the time Starfleet was meant to be the military. Trek XI however tries to dance around that and TNG's "Starfleet is not the military" by describing it only as a "humanitarian peacekeeping force." Which still sounds like a military to me, but we're obviously not supposed to view it that way.

 

[Dukhat]

Felt more like watching a Mirror Universe story, myself.

Really? How?

Besides getting a more millitant feel from it, the characters felt like charactures of the originals, etc.

Funny, I don't remember the Federation invading other planets or Starfleet officers assassinating other officers to move up in rank. That's what I remember when I saw "Mirror, Mirror." As for the characters feeling like caricatures of the originals, YMMV. I thought they were just fine (except for perhaps Simon Pegg's goofiness which James Doohan was never really like in TOS).

If you don't like the movie, fine. But comparing it to the mirror universe for the reasons you state makes little sense.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

nuSpock did try to assassinate nuKirk, though.

 

[Dukhat]

nuSpock did try to assassinate nuKirk, though.

But he wasn't doing it to move up in rank