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Was there a Klingon battlecruiser at Wolf 359?

Dukhat

Dukhat

Admiral
Admiral
So I've pretty much identified every single ship or piece of debris from the Wolf 359 graveyard, with one exception: the object above the Kyushu and to the right of the Chekov. Unfortunately in the video about the scene in the BoBW bluray special features, this ship is still unidentifiable:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...dth-down/640?cb=20130213235932&path-prefix=en

I've been wracking my brain for years as to what this object might be. I always assumed that it was another Starfleet ship or part of the known ships in the scene, since all the other ships are Starfleet. I also thought it might be the TNG shuttle Kotoi, but I'm pretty sure that model ended up not being used because it was too gruesome (a dead Starfleet officer is shown in the open shuttle door). However, I did a quick and dirty photoshop and this is what I came up with:

https://i.imgur.com/8V3OIa4.jpg

Both the D7 and K'T'Inga class Klingon battlecruiser model kits were readily available when BoBW was filmed (although if the object is indeed a battlecruiser, it was probably built from the K'T'Inga model).

What do you think? And if Misters Okuda or Sternbach happen to be reading this, might they remember if a damaged Klingon battlecruiser was used in the scene?
 
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Looks indeed like a possible match!

Then again, Okuda's team was heavily involved in up-greebling Miarecki's kitbashes with whatever material they could find. Using bits of the battlecruiser kit need not yet mean there would have been anything really resembling a battlecruiser in the final mix. Perhaps just a leftover wing, without the superstructure or the neck or even the portside nacelle?

In-universe, a K't'inga would be a nice addition to the mix - a lone Klingon Kaptain agreeing to a fight for the glory of it. Plus, a nice way to set the score on 39 starships lost out of supposed 40: if this Klingon answered Hanson's summons, the Admiral would count him in (and hope for more, but never get it), yet Satie would not deign to involve Klingons in her list of Picard's crimes, out of patriotic bias. :devil:

Timo Saloniemi
 
There was a Klingon ship in the Unification shipyard which shares several ships with the Wolf 359 wreckage, so...could be one and the same!
 
An intact-looking K't'inga, though. Possibly she shared fates with the other intact ships there - the Planet of Titans study models on the foreground also remained intact because they were not used in the Wolf 359 wreckage scene after all.

It's not as if any Wolf 359 models were used in "Unification" anyway. Only stock footage of those was. FWIW.

Timo Saloniemi
 
This is a cool find. It supports the narrative that there would be a minimal Klingon presence at Earth at all times in the TNG timeline. Allies hang out together, right? There should have been a small number of Klingon ships just hanging out near 001 Sol during BOBW.
 
There should be, but there weren't, that I recall. The only Klingon cruisers we saw in the actual battle were in DS9's Emissary I seem to recall, rather than in BOBW, despite Admiral Hansen referencing them as 'coming to help'.
 
dauntless said:
There should be, but there weren't, that I recall. The only Klingon cruisers we saw in the actual battle were in DS9's Emissary I seem to recall, rather than in BOBW, despite Admiral Hansen referencing them as 'coming to help'.
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Where did you see Klingon ships in Emissary?
 
I don't remember ever seeing Klingon ships in "Emissary" or "BoBW" - but assimilated Klingons have shown up every now and then, and were a big element in VOY "Infinite Regress". Not that this would in any way tie them to Wolf 359, though.

(I do vaguely remember a shot of BoPs attacking a Borg Cube, but it doesn't seem to be part of the "Infinite Regress" flashbacks. Perhaps I'm conflating some fan works to the whole there.)

Timo Saloniemi
 
I suspect it is the Kotoi shuttle, and the dark part is the open door.

Also, no Klingon ships in "Emissary" but they (via recycled "Way of the Warrior" clips) were spliced into Wolf 359 footage in Voyager's "Unity"
 
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Ah, so that's it! The obscure VOY reference. At which point of the episode does it occur?

Timo Saloniemi
 
In the special features section of the BoBW Blu-ray, it shows multiple passes for the scene. As with many of the models in the shot, the lighting obscures parts of the ship. In the pass you can actually faintly see the second nacelle on the other side and the first nacelle extended forward more than what can be seen in the final shot. I didn’t add the second nacelle in my photoshop because you can’t see it in the final shot.
 
Didn't Admiral Hanson say something like "Klingons are sending (war)ships" ?
It wasn't mentioned whether they made it in time for the battle?

Fighting with your ally against an enemy that has superior tech, honorable way to go.
 
JesterFace said:
Didn't Admiral Hanson say something like "Klingons are sending (war)ships" ?
It wasn't mentioned whether they made it in time for the battle?

Fighting with your ally against an enemy that has superior tech, honorable way to go.
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Admiral Hansen: "We've mobilized a fleet of 40 starships at Wolf 359. And that's just for starters. The Klingons are sending warships. Hell, we've even thought of opening communications with the Romulans."

So the 40 starships were all Starfleet. Any Klingons ships would have been extra. But Hansen makes it explicit that the Klingon Empire was sending ships. True, as you say we don't know if they made it in time, but if this object is part of a Klingon battlecruiser, then that would be evidence they did make it, along with the spliced-in footage of BoPs during the opening scene of Emissary.

BTW, here's a screencap from the bluray special features of the "beauty pass." I've made it a bit lighter so that the object's features can better be made out. As I said before, the rest of the port nacelle and the top structure that looks like a hole in the regular scene are better highlighted:

https://imgur.com/a/87VxIrA
 
Dukhat said:
Admiral Hansen: "We've mobilized a fleet of 40 starships at Wolf 359. And that's just for starters. The Klingons are sending warships. Hell, we've even thought of opening communications with the Romulans."

So the 40 starships were all Starfleet. Any Klingons ships would have been extra. But Hansen makes it explicit that the Klingon Empire was sending ships. True, as you say we don't know if they made it in time, but if this object is part of a Klingon battlecruiser, then that would be evidence they did make it, along with the spliced-in footage of BoPs during the opening scene of Emissary.

BTW, here's a screencap from the bluray special features of the "beauty pass." I've made it a bit lighter so that the object's features can better be made out. As I said before, the rest of the port nacelle and the top structure that looks like a hole in the regular scene are better highlighted:

https://imgur.com/a/87VxIrA
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Yeah, that picture does look like a D7 hulk.
 
King Daniel Beyond said:
I suspect it is the Kotoi shuttle, and the dark part is the open door.
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I second that. If you take the original screenshot turn it into black&white (better contrast), enlargen and sharpen it you can see that it is an L-shaped structure with something on top. It looks identical to Dukhat's Kotoi shuttle picture, even the angle is the same.

If Klingons had participated in the battle, gotten captured and assimilated, the Empire would propably consider that quite embarassing. A warrior would be supposed to rather die than letting himself be assimilated. That would explain why a Klingon involvement at Wolf 359 would not have been mentioned in any of the following episodes and spin-offs.


neH cha' DarSeqmeywij ;)
 
rhubarbodendron said:
I second that. If you take the original screenshot turn it into black&white (better contrast), enlargen and sharpen it you can see that it is an L-shaped structure with something on top. It looks identical to Dukhat's Kotoi shuttle picture, even the angle is the same.

If Klingons had participated in the battle, gotten captured and assimilated, the Empire would propably consider that quite embarassing. A warrior would be supposed to rather die than letting himself be assimilated. That would explain why a Klingon involvement at Wolf 359 would not have been mentioned in any of the following episodes and spin-offs.


neH cha' DarSeqmeywij ;)
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I’m a bit confused. I didn’t post a pic of the Kotoi shuttle, I posted a pic of a photoshopped Klingon battlecruiser. If you can see the Kotoi shuttle with the changes you made to the shot, could you post it please?

Also, I think the idea for the shuttle was to film it close up, not super-far away, so that the audience could actually see the dead guy inside. Jein thought that it ultimately wasn't used precisely because something like that would be too gruesome.
 
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I wonder did Admiral Hanson mean that Starfleet has gathered 40 ships and Klingons are sending reinforcements on top of that or was the 40 ships Klingons included?

Did 'The Drumhead' hearings say something about this, I don't remember exactly what Satie said in those hearings except how many ships and lives were lost.
 
JesterFace said:
I wonder did Admiral Hanson mean that Starfleet has gathered 40 ships and Klingons are sending reinforcements on top of that or was the 40 ships Klingons included?
Click to expand...

Hansen's statement seems to confirm that the 40 starships were Starfleet, and any Klingon reinforcements would be extra.

Did 'The Drumhead' hearings say something about this, I don't remember exactly what Satie said in those hearings except how many ships and lives were lost.
Click to expand...

Admiral Satie mentions that 39 starships were destroyed. She was most likely referring to Starfleet ships. So that also implies that one ship escaped.
 
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