Was the Supercedence Challenge really fulfilled during episode "Code Of Honour"?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by marsh8472, Feb 7, 2017.

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Was the Supercedence Challenge really fulfilled during episode "Code Of Honour"?

  1. Yes, Yareena died and came back to life which satified the challenge

    66.7%
  2. No, it was a fake death. Yareena was in critical condition but was saved from death.

    16.7%
  3. Other/Don't Know

    16.7%
  1. marsh8472

    marsh8472 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    [​IMG]

    Lutan picked Tasha Yar as his First One which would have demoted Yareena to Number Two as I understand it. Yareena challenged Tasha Yar to the right of supercedence which is supposed to be a fight to the death, similar to the Vulcan Kal-if-fee challenge. Anyway at the end they claimed she died which dissolved the marriage and she got to keep her property and picked a different First One causing Lutan to lose her property.

    PICARD: Exactly what do you find unfair, Lutan? They fought to the death. You saw the final blow. You know the effects of your poison.
    ...
    LUTAN: She is not dead! There was no death combat. You violated our agreement. There will be no treaty, no vaccine!
    PICARD: The challenge was carried out. She died, Lutan.
    LUTAN: There was no challenge! She lives!
    CRUSHER: I am a physician and saw her die. If you doubt this poison, why don't you test it on yourself?
    PICARD: Lutan, we can provide you with records of her death and how Doctor Crusher brought her back.
    YAREENA: And at the instant of death, Lutan, a mating agreement dissolves.
    LUTAN: But this is witchcraft, Yareena. To discard a mate in this manner
    YAREENA: Is less painful than the one you selected for me.

    Lutan was not very skeptical about Yareena's death. Did she really die? Providing death records and surviving a poisoning that the Ligonians don't have a cure for is not technically proof of death. There's a difference between death and saving someone from the brink of death. Could the crew have been being deceptive about her death in order to get the vaccine?

    My own idea of death occurs after the heart stops, brain death and there's no reasonable potential left to revive them. Given that they planned to treat Yareena immediately after being poisoned before that point of no return was reached, that didn't seem very dead to me.

    http://www.livescience.com/46418-clinical-death-definitions.html

    TNG "Where Silence Has Lease"
    Voyager "Mortal Coil"

    TNG "Skin of Evil"
    Voyager "Coda"
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  2. cgervasi

    cgervasi Commander Red Shirt

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    Location:
    Madison, WI
    It seems like a technicality that the Ligonion legal authorities would reject on the grounds that death is permanent by the definition used for this rule.
     
  3. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Then again, the authorities would not want to reject it. They were at an impasse, driven into a diplomatic corner and facing a lose-lose situation (we know from later examples that Picard would have busted Yar out of the predicament, pious Prime Directive speeches notwithstanding). The technicality allowed them to turn that to win-win.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  4. Triskelion

    Triskelion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Great question, marsh8472! It's a stumper!

    IMO, this question lies within the Ligonian legal code as it defines medical death. Since Yareena died and met those conditions, presumably, and the marriage definition did not seem to extend beyond a resuscitation from that state, then it would have to be argued in court whether the marriage was still solvent or not - in an equivalent of a law suit. Until that time, the criteria for legal dissolution were satisfied - since the Enterprise medical staff could provide all records transparently, allowing for examination for fraud, etc.

    The question, here well-crafted for in-universe philosophical terms, is not so much about whether it was capital-D Death if a subject could be resuscitated; that's for philosophers, and here, Ligonian lawyers to wrangle in a possible subsequent appeal or lawsuit. The question in this episode was small-d death - as a simple medical confirmation of the flatline death state - that was met and witnessed, all bona fide, stamped and sealed. That state from which, if you do nothing extraordinary, the patient remains dead for all of eternity. Yareena was pronounced dead by Ligonian legal definition; if the Enterprise required a local coroner to certify that fact, we can presume they met that need. Which gives me a great idea for a new Trek series: ST Law & Order, or ST: CSI. Alas, the show mostly focused on larger ethical dilemmas (should Wesley die for falling in a flower bed? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... I like it!) rather than the subtle legal wrangling of actual interplanetary diplomatic friction.

    For now, her very real and medically confirmed death state was apparently sufficient to dissolve the marriage (which, let's face it, was predicated on a very iffy oral tradition and probably not a complex, circumscribed legal code in the first place). Ligonian culture doesn't strike me as one that suffers legal hair-splitting like arguing what the definition of "is" is. It was more based on their version of honor - which like Klingon culture, depends greatly upon popular perception. (For more about the rigid cultural implications of family honor-based cultures, SF Debris kicks it around properly in his review of the Worf discommodation episode, IIRC).

    So a subsequent law suit would seem a less likely legal option than Lutan having to battle to the death for his own appeal, probably - if he even had any option at that point. A society that embraces a battle to the death for the right to divorce is a society that doesn't tolerate a lot of legal backpedaling after the fact.

    In the end, Lutan seems to have accepted his limited legal footing. Though a good Ligonian lawyer or mêlée weapons-smith might want to take his case.
     
  5. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    It really depends on local legalities I guess. Had Tasha been any other Ligonian, & had stuck that fatal blow, it certainly would've meant death. In the absence of anything like this condition being on the record, I can see it being litigated either way... not that they seem like a very litigious society, mind you, but the way that it happened doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility, for this unique circumstance

    It's an interesting question, with an even more interesting consequence. Now that they know that a person might be brought back from a lifeless state, & this precedent has now been put into effect, something like this could drastically alter their whole socioeconomic landscape
     
  6. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Famed science fiction writer Isaac Asimov (1920-1992) was a biochemist with a PHD in biochemistry from Columbia University in 1948. Thus he should have been familiar with the usual medical definition of death in the 1940s.

    I read an article by Asimov about his heart surgery. Asimov wrote how his doctor was describing the procedure:

    "First we're going to stop your heart, and___" Asimov wrote how startling that was to him. He had been taught that the heart stopping was death, so it was like the doctor saying they were going to kill him, fix his heart, and bring him back to life. It was like suddenly realizing you are in a science fiction advanced future.

    It is possible that the Ligonian definition of death is not as advanced as the Federation definition of death, and that Yareena was legally dead according to the Ligonian definition of death but not the Federation one. It is also possible that Yareena was legally dead according to both definitions of death before being revived.

    in "The Neutral Zone":
    So in this episode Doctor Crusher can revive people who died according to the Federation definition over three hundred Earth years ago, who are not just merely dead but really most sincerely dead.

    This makes her failure to save other persons when the plot demands it rather hard to explain, but if Crusher had the capabilities of "The Neutral Zone" in "Code of Honor" she could have brought Yareena back to life after she was dead as a door nail according to Federation standards, let alone our standards or Ligonian standards.