Bingo.
Was the historical problem with City/Forever ever addressed?
- Thread starter enterprisecvn65
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In all major sci-fi stories concerning paralell universes there comes a point where one reality splits away from the other. If not then the other universe earth might still be 'peopled' by Dinosaurs or even uninhabited! I'd say that the divergence may have occurred because of CATEOF or more logically may have even split off in the last fifty years of the Federation due to the crew being virtually the same in both realities! I don't remember any bisexual interaction in Mirror,Mirror! I know it comes about in the DS9 Mirror shows but I haven't seen them as of yet!
JB
I think it was "In a Mirror Darkly" that implied the Mirror Universe wasn't a divergent universe from ours. As stated by Timo, there is a fundamental difference in the makeup of the universe. It's not just a parallel universe that split from ours. It was fundamentally different from the beginning.
Like he said, there's some evil gene or something in their make up that makes them evil. It's not just the result of different choices.
Like he said, there's some evil gene or something in their make up that makes them evil. It's not just the result of different choices.
Quite a number of people in the real world have the same ruthless qualities. They just veil it better than Mirror Chekov did, and seldom resort to physical violence. I think people like that are in control of governments, as well as education, entertainment, and the news media. It goes without saying that they have street gangs and organized crime pretty much sewn up as well.
I'm not saying they get together and conspire with each other. They don't have to; they're all just rowing in the same direction.
The Sociopath Next Door
In the mirror universe, the four percent are the caring, guilt-ridden weirdos. "Defectives."
Who says the people in the Mirror Universe are all sociopaths? They're more opportunistic and self serving to be sure, but that is likely a result of the society they live in...live in together.
The incidents we see in the MM episode(s) have to be taken with (1) a pinch of salt and (2) as exceptional incidents that are not the norm. Otherwise the Mirror Society would never have held together long enough to built boats, let alone starships!
The incidents we see in the MM episode(s) have to be taken with (1) a pinch of salt and (2) as exceptional incidents that are not the norm. Otherwise the Mirror Society would never have held together long enough to built boats, let alone starships!
No one said that. The linked book was meant to show the significant percentage of people lacking a "conscience." And please don't use the "he grew up in a bad neighborhood" excuse. Lots of people grow up in turbulent environments and become outstanding and productive members of society.
You'd have to say the same thing about the Klingons and the Romulans. Of course, one could never treat a TREK episode as allegorical. The stories are to be taken literally, or not at all. /s
It's easy to see, if you look, that the Klingons and Romulans aren't any different. Their societies and lifestyles have been affected by the existence of the Terran Empire, and so relations between them, both internally and externally, are affected as well. There is no 'mean streak' in the MU. One significant event in Earth/Human history somewhere in the mid to late 20th century changed everything.
Or maybe later? Perhaps, without Picard and crew laying the groundwork for Cochrane and his buddies that friendly aliens would be visiting, they assumed a more belligerent stance by default? They did live in a pretty drab post-war world after all, half expecting new attacks from their old enemies. In that scenario, if a huge flying fortress landed in your yard, what would be the most likely response?
If it was SO different though why would you have so many of the original crew still serving together? I mean why would Spock or Scotty or even Uhura be serving on an Enterprise run by Kirk rather than be on another Starship or even different career or they could have been dead? I know it's only a 50 minute television story as well...
JB
JB
Yes I did. I don´t want to spoiler about it, but it is highly recommendable. It is part of the Crucible Trilogy from DRG III. You should get it and read it, although it is a big tome.
If it was SO different though why would you have so many of the original crew still serving together? I mean why would Spock or Scotty or even Uhura be serving on an Enterprise run by Kirk rather than be on another Starship or even different career or they could have been dead? I know it's only a 50 minute television story as well...
JB
I believe that in each visit to a Mirror Universe, that MU is created all at once by some precipitating event (like the ion storm in "Mirror, Mirror"). The MU had no prior existence; it came into being suddenly and imperfectly like a bad Xerox copy. So all the same individuals are copied into the MU, and in similar relationships and proximity, but they are different as well.
The created MU might then continue to exist after the Prime Universe characters leave it, or it might vanish. The science is not settled on this point. I believe it vanishes due to the Law of Conservation.
Granted, I have to disregard DS9's very decent MU episodes as fiction, maybe short stories by Jake Sisko, to make the math work out. This also explains how Vic Fontaine could be flesh and blood in the DS9 MU -- because there is no DS9 MU.
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Opening credits to ENT's "A Mirror Darkly" depicts the Terran Empire landing on the moon and planting the flag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXw6hC7hxBA
If it was SO different though why would you have so many of the original crew still serving together? I mean why would Spock or Scotty or even Uhura be serving on an Enterprise run by Kirk rather than be on another Starship or even different career or they could have been dead? I know it's only a 50 minute television story as well...
JB
And this is the logical flaw in depicting a divergent timeline in fiction. We, the viewers (and the writers) want to depict our main cast of characters. Logically, however, such characters would not continue to be together.
Agreed, Shawn! Maybe one or two of them but not the crew we saw! Although it would have been boring without them and Mirror, Mirror is excellent!
JB
JB
If it was SO different though why would you have so many of the original crew still serving together? I mean why would Spock or Scotty or even Uhura be serving on an Enterprise run by Kirk rather than be on another Starship or even different career or they could have been dead? I know it's only a 50 minute television story as well...
JB
I believe that in each visit to a Mirror Universe, that MU is created all at once by some precipitating event (like the ion storm in "Mirror, Mirror"). The MU had no prior existence; it came into being suddenly and imperfectly like a bad Xerox copy. So all the same individuals are copied into the MU, and in similar relationships and proximity, but they are different as well.
The created MU might then continue to exist after the Prime Universe characters leave it, or it might vanish. The science is not settled on this point. I believe it vanishes due to the Law of Conservation.
Granted, I have to disregard DS9's very decent MU episodes as fiction, maybe short stories by Jake Sisko, to make the math work out. This also explains how Vic Fontaine could be flesh and blood in the DS9 MU -- because there is no DS9 MU.
Yeah I haven't seen the DS9 Mirror episodes yet but that stretches credulity by making Vic Fontaine a real character over there doesn't it?
JB
My explanation is that the two universe are continuously connected in a interactive way, what happens in one universe influences the other. That's why while not identical they are so close. People, materials, technology and basic events.
Two sides of the same coin.
But Christopher Pike is dead in the mirror universe and Kirk and Spock are obviously not friends although they have had a profittable history together. The Halkans seem to be exactly the same type of people on both sides of the mirror even if they look a little stressed! No agony booth or agonizers on our side either when our ship is travelling in the right direction! 
JB
JB
But Christopher Pike is dead in the mirror universe and Kirk and Spock are obviously not friends although they have had a profittable history together. The Halkans seem to be exactly the same type of people on both sides of the mirror even if they look a little stressed! No agony booth or agonizers on our side either when our ship is travelling in the right direction!
JB
Sulu died in Mirror Mirror. Everything he accomplished after that would be different in the Mirror universe. Helping with the whales (yeah, like that would have happened), Captain of the Excelsior, fathering Demora Sulu and her accomplishments, etc...
There are a number of major character changes in the DS9 episodes, too.
Odo died in Crossover
Worf is not a Starfleet officer
Garak died in The Emperor's New Cloak
Worf is not a Starfleet officer
Garak died in The Emperor's New Cloak
All of these major character changes would have profound influence on events in the Mirror Universe, making it vastly divergent from ours.
No, he was just knocked unconscious.
