was Spock famous before he joined Starfleet?

[Anwar]

I thought that Spock was actually over-compensating for his human emotions the way he acted most of the time and pure Vulcans actually wouldn't be the way he was. Made it more poignant in the first Trek movie when he realized those emotions would actually make him a more complete person.

 

[Praetor]

In other words, he only had be Vulcan enough on the Enterprise, and be the picture of stoic, emotionless efficiency, whereas on the Intrepid, he could behave exactly the same, but be branded as a raving emotionalist.

Why do you think he stayed on the Enterprise all those years? It was the only place where he was actually accepted for who and what he is.

If anything, that's the core message of Star Trek. Find out where you belong in the universe and make the most of it.

I thought that Spock was actually over-compensating for his human emotions the way he acted most of the time and pure Vulcans actually wouldn't be the way he was. Made it more poignant in the first Trek movie when he realized those emotions would actually make him a more complete person.

Stir vigorously till blended. I think then we'll have the truth.

Spock may have believed he was taking the harder route to prove himself as a Vulcan, but subconsciously he afterward felt he took 'the easy way' and ended up behaving in a more human, emotional manner after all. This in turn drove him pre-TMP to devote himself to kohlinahr prior to his latter realizations.

 

[NathanielM]

Well, if you go by the album Inside Star Trek, then yes he was as the first successful human-Vulcan hybrid. This was stated in Roddenberry's "interview" of Ambassador Sarek.

And I kinda like that idea.

Wouldn't ya have pity for the earth female? just a little too... every 7 years.... thats a little long between that, you know... But i guess the vulcans were logicial about doing that.

If memory serves, I do believe that Tpring and Spock were also an arranged marriage at 7 so i can see where it would work...

kind of hard for Amanda (spock's mother) who must have met sarak during the pon far time...

Did Roddenberry ever elaborate why the vulcans were like that? or did Nimoy come up with that. He had alot of freedom of how he wanted to portray the character Mr Spock... how he acted it out... He could have been sort of a "Vulcan" trainer to other extras portraying vulcans. How they should be, how they act, how they walk, behave etc.

Just a food for thought here.

Nathaniel

 

[Praetor]

From what I recall, Roddenberry basically took the stoic character traits of the female 'Number One' from 'The Cage' when she screen negatively with execs and test audiences, and grafted it onto Spock, who in 'The Cage' had displayed more emotion.

I'd say more about 'being Vulcan' was defined by D.C. Fontana, but the mannerisms and little stuff - the Vulcan salute being based on a Hebrew hand gesture - were Nimoy's.

 

[Ronald Held]

We have no indication that the Starfleet Academy has any other branch but in San Franscisco. How many cadets are expected to graduate in any given year?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Howzabout this: the ships are Starfleet registered, but the operating authority is delegated to the major Federation members, specifically, those who have their own sufficiently large space program. The Enterprise operates under the United Earth Space Probe Agency, the Intrepid operated under some office of Vulcan Space Central or the Vulcan Science Academy.

And that might be a way to work in a variation of the "Spock is the first Vulcan in Starfleet" idea. The notion of Vulcan operating a separate Starfleet Academy facility isn't such a bad idea, and fits quite well with the typical Vulcan attitude of staying apart from all those pesky emotional humans, with the graduates being directed mainly to either ground assignments or ships under Vulcan control, like the Intrepid.

Spock, however, could very well have been the first Vulcan to attend Starfleet Academy on Earth, thus opening up a much wider career field and, essentially, telling Vulcan, and his father, to bite his pointy-eared ass.

Interesting ideas. Though I would doubt the Vulcan Science Academy would be a Starfleet associate given these statemnent:

I gave Spock his first instruction in computers, Captain. He chose to devote his knowledge to Starfleet instead of the Vulcan Science Academy.

My husband has nothing against Starfleet. But Vulcans believe that peace should not depend on force.

Starfleet force is used only as a last resort.
We're an instrument of civilization. And it's a better opportunity for a scientist to study the universe than at the Vulcan Science Academy

Perhaps the "Space Central" refered to in some episodes is Vulcan Space Central, who's authority the Enterpise was operating under for that mission. Further, the "Star Service" and "Space Command" might also be the space exploration arms of a couple of UFP member worlds that work with Starfleet on occasion.

 

[Praetor]

Wait. I may have it!

Based on Amanda's line - I wonder if perhaps prior to Spock, Vulcans were the 'conscientious objectors' of the Federation? They wouldn't join Starfleet because it seemed 'too military.'

Spock may have burst the door open for all-Vulcan ships such as the Intrepid (which may have even been an early experiment) but it may have taken a while for 'mainstream' Vulcan society to accept the idea.

 

[Kryton]

I find it difficult to accept that Spock was ever famous first...I just can't believe that both Kirk and McCoy would be so ignorant of the fact to be stunned by the revelation Ambassador Sarek and Amanda were his parents in "Babel".

 

[Dark Gilligan]

Well, if you go by the album Inside Star Trek, then yes he was as the first successful human-Vulcan hybrid. This was stated in Roddenberry's "interview" of Ambassador Sarek.

This was negated by DC Fontana though in her book about young Spock's first assignment aboard Pike's Enterprise. (Vulcan's Glory...?) In the story Spock encounters another human/Vulcan hybrid, this one looking fully human, who's family was the product of a human/Vulcan pairing generations before Sarek and Amanda got together. The character essentially says to Spock "What... did you think you were the only one?"

 

[Praetor]

I guess it all just depends how 'special' you want Spock, and also the TOS crew to be. Were they a special bunch because they were special to start with, or was it their experiences on TOS that distinguished them from other five-year-mission crews?

 

[Captain Robert April]

One bit that Dorothy Fontana offered up for the novel "Vulcan!" was the notion that Vulcans can mate any damn time they want to (pon farr is the only time they have to, and in the case of unattached males, the whole concept as generally accepted is highly debatable).

 

[Dark Gilligan]

One bit that Dorothy Fontana offered up for the novel "Vulcan!" was the notion that Vulcans can mate any damn time they want to...

Of course they can. Other authors have used this as well, even on-screen if you're of the mind that Spock bedded that Romulan Commander chick. And that Ice Age woman too. Pon farr is an involuntary reproductive act, but it's certainly not the only reproductive act. The Vulcan species would not have survived otherwise.

 

[Praetor]

I like to think of pon farr as a psychological 'boil over' that is the trade off of so much emotional discipline and repression and has become an actual physiological requirement, perhaps at first thousands of years ago in an almost psychosomatic fashion. It probably coincides with some natural cycle of the Vulcan reproductive system too, but not one that precludes mating at other times.

I imagine Vulcan sex to be a rather sterile affair. Then again, maybe not...

 

[Timo]

Pon farr is an involuntary reproductive act

Actually, as per dialogue, pon farr is merely a mate-choosing / mate-conquering act. It isn't stated to involve or require copulation, even though apparently the females do get horny in the process.

In that sense, it's probably a pretty good match to the fights between stags here on Earth: it's all between males, without any role for the females save for interested bystander - and at the end of such a fight, the stag is likely to be disinterested in sex due to sheer exhaustion.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[KirksFlyingFist]

I wouldn't think so.

Look at all of the scientific advances that occur in today's world that the mass public could care less about.

Now think about an entire galaxy of 'news' occurring, and how insignificant a hybrid would be. In fact, I'm sure Spock wasn't the first hybrid species in general, maybe the first human Vulcan, but I don't see it being big news.

 

[Captain Robert April]

On a galaxy wide basis, no, but on Vulcan, I can see Spock retaining a certain level of celebrity status.

As for Vulcan mating practices, I think we need to hear more from that "Inside Star Trek" interview with Sarek.

"Roddenberry, are you asking if we coupled?"

 

[Ronald Held]

On Vulcan, using Human terms, I am uncertain how famous or imfamous he might have been...

 

[Nerys Myk]

 

[Praetor]

^That's great.

 

[Ronald Held]

It seems illogical that this is a Vulcan publication.