Was Spock considering suicide at the end of "Amok Time?"

[Commishsleer]

I thought at the time that Spock just meant he was going to have a miserable rest of his life in prison whatever. However he did explicitly say he will not live long.

Maybe he's planning to commit some Vulcan form of honourable death like hari kari. And he's making sure to tell T'Pau. Just to say 'Thanks for Nothing'.
And that could be why she's cleared the Enterprise boys actions with the Federation - maybe even Kirk's death. I think she said something to the Starfleet like we urgently needed Spock for some reason and Kirk had no choice but to bring him to Vulcan. And Kirk may have been hurt tragically and you know give him a great human burial whatever. And Spock had nothing to do with it and neither did our bizarre secret rituals. Thanks Federation for your help. Sorry about what happened to one if your Captains...

 

[Phaser Two]

I sort of figured that T'Pau knew all along that McCoy was fixing the fight. I doubt she would have permitted the death of a Starfleet captain no matter how sacred the tradition.

 

[captainkirk]

And The Menagerie says that violation of General Order 7 is "the only death penalty still on the books."

I know. It's just another one of Star Trek's many inconsistencies.

 

[Marsden]

I think Spock's answer refers to his life seeming to him to be over. He's already resolved to resign his commision, which was important to him at the time, so throwing his whole career away could be seen as having a miserable life no matter how long it is. He may have engaged in activity that would have shortened his life, as in volunteering for dangerous duty but I never thought he would actually self harm.

And now for the next part of my post.

I never thought of it before this thread, mostly because of Spock's "There can be no excuse for the crime of which I'm guilty. I intend to offer no defense." I had always assumed Spock did break a law. But, what if he didn't?

I think the Federation at this time was just that, a Federation of worlds that had their own laws and traditions and a somewhat unified command structure for their Space Forces with Star Fleet Command. Each world governed it's own and it's colonies affairs, the Federation Council only handled common interests, like interplanetary trade and foreign affairs. So under Vulcan law, did Spock break the law? We know at least one other Federation member had slavery, maybe in Vulcan law with a ritual of this nature, an occasional homicide is acceptable and even justifiable. There were certainly enough witnesses for any hearing/trial afterwards to clear anyone that followed the ritual. That big guy with the huge ax, what more could he have done if someone continued to break the rules? Chop their arms and legs off? I think deaths in these type of situations may have been just one of the hazards of Vulcan life. The kahs-wan probably claims a few lives as well, are the parents criminally negligent for sending a seven year old into the desert to survive in hostile conditions?

 

[Lord Garth]

I don't think Spock meant anything by "I shall do neither". They're just words. He wasn't in the right frame of mind, so he was saying whatever. Especially if it was the opposite of "Live long and prosper".

 

[Commishsleer]

I don't think Spock meant anything by "I shall do neither". They're just words. He wasn't in the right frame of mind, so he was saying whatever. Especially if it was the opposite of "Live long and prosper".

I don't think the intent of the script was that he was going to commit suicide but then I'm not sure exactly what was allowed to be said on 60s TV on matters like that.
I think Blish's version has a slightly different take on things. In that Spock was given the option of releasing Kirk from the challenge to the death by T'Pau but refused (in his maddened state I suppose). So according to the script Blish read from Spock would have reason to be doubly guilty.

 

[Lord Garth]

People who give up and lose the will to live probably won't live to old age. Maybe not in real life so much as drama, but he lost the will to live. And the thought of having killed Kirk and leaving with that for the rest of his life would cause heartbreak that would be even worse for him to bear since he's Vulcan. He was illogical and he killed for an illogical thing. So the heartache and emotional strain would kill him and eat away at him over time. Maybe that's what the writers had in mind. But I also think it's just something he said in the sorrow of the moment.

A less savory way to look at it is: we don't know if whatever prison Spock might've been sent to (had he actually killed Kirk) would've allowed for conjugal visits during Pon'Farr, another seven years later. So, to quote McCoy, "the emotional pressures will simply kill him!"

I prefer my earlier interpretation but I think both would be true.

 

[Commishsleer]

I think Spock's answer refers to his life seeming to him to be over. He's already resolved to resign his commision, which was important to him at the time, so throwing his whole career away could be seen as having a miserable life no matter how long it is. He may have engaged in activity that would have shortened his life, as in volunteering for dangerous duty but I never thought he would actually self harm.

And now for the next part of my post.

I never thought of it before this thread, mostly because of Spock's "There can be no excuse for the crime of which I'm guilty. I intend to offer no defense." I had always assumed Spock did break a law. But, what if he didn't?

I think the Federation at this time was just that, a Federation of worlds that had their own laws and traditions and a somewhat unified command structure for their Space Forces with Star Fleet Command. Each world governed it's own and it's colonies affairs, the Federation Council only handled common interests, like interplanetary trade and foreign affairs. So under Vulcan law, did Spock break the law? We know at least one other Federation member had slavery, maybe in Vulcan law with a ritual of this nature, an occasional homicide is acceptable and even justifiable. There were certainly enough witnesses for any hearing/trial afterwards to clear anyone that followed the ritual. That big guy with the huge ax, what more could he have done if someone continued to break the rules? Chop their arms and legs off? I think deaths in these type of situations may have been just one of the hazards of Vulcan life. The kahs-wan probably claims a few lives as well, are the parents criminally negligent for sending a seven year old into the desert to survive in hostile conditions?

I don't think Spock broke the law. And while its not OK to kill your captain. There was a fight to the death which Kirk apparently agreed to. Which he had a chance to get out of and didn't. Which is not the whole story of course.

 

[Steven P Bastien]

Also, even if they tried to charge him, temporary insanity would be a valid defense.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I never thought of it before this thread, mostly because of Spock's "There can be no excuse for the crime of which I'm guilty. I intend to offer no defense." I had always assumed Spock did break a law. But, what if he didn't?

He was planning to go all "Michael Burnham"

 

[johnnybear]

Not in this universe he wasn't!
JB

 

[Nerys Myk]

Not in this universe he wasn't!
JB

Sure he was. The universe is irrelevant.

 

[johnnybear]

Which universe?
JB

 

[Tenacity]

I think Spock's answer refers to his life seeming to him to be over.

Bingo.

Getting metaphoric with the word "life." Spock saw his future as gone.

I doubt she would have permitted the death of a Starfleet captain no matter how sacred the tradition.

Why would T'Pau consider the death of a Starfleet captain to be more significant than the death of a non-"Starfleet captain?"

 

[Tenacity]

I don't think Spock broke the law.

There's four players to that, Starfleet, the Federation, Vulcan and Earth.

Let's assume Spock actually killed Kirk.

Vulcan, I don't see any of this (including a death) being a violation of Vulcan law. Unlike some fans I don't think the kalle-fee is some obscure ancient never used technicality. The kalle-fee would result in death if invoked, Vulcan law allows for this.

Starfleet, one officer killing another. Does Starfleet allow dueling? Given that Spock wasn't planing to offer a defense (although a Starfleet court might then impose a defense lawyer) he would likely be charged with willful murder and sentenced.

Earth, Kirk was of Earth. Could Earth request (handled by Earth's ambassador to Vulcan) that Spock be extradited to Earth to stand trial? Also there's the fact that half of Spock's ancestry is Earth, and Earth could directly require Starfleet to simply deliver him to Earth authorities. I don't think double-jeopardy would play into this.

Federation, would one person killing another even be something the Federation becomes involved with? Seem to me this would be a matter (outside of Starfleet) that the member worlds would handle.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Do you think Cogley would make a re-appearance to defend Spock this time?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

No, suicide would not be logical. But his conscience would require him to submit to any arrest, trial, penalty or punishment decreed.

I never interpreted that line to mean he would attempt suicide.

Agreed. Spock is not suicidal, and would see that as the height of illogic. He's only willing to sacrifice himself in the line of duty / to save others (e.g. "The Immunity Syndrome" or Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan)

 

[DonIago]

I could see him pulling a Mogh in "Sons of Mogh", after Sisko blocked his attempt to have Worf kill him (which I have some problems with). By which I mean, no longer actively attempting to kill himself, necessarily, but putting himself in circumstances more likely to result in his death.

 

[johnnybear]

I don't think Spock broke the law. And while its not OK to kill your captain. There was a fight to the death which Kirk apparently agreed to. Which he had a chance to get out of and didn't. Which is not the whole story of course.

Of course, but Kirk didn't know it was a fight to the death until T'Pau announced it much later on after Kirk had accepted the challenge! Afterwards he risked execution himself by asking what to the death actually meant!
JB

 

[Commishsleer]

Of course, but Kirk didn't know it was a fight to the death until T'Pau announced it much later on after Kirk had accepted the challenge! Afterwards he risked execution himself by asking what to the death actually meant!
JB

I'm sure even Cogley could have got Spock free not that Spock would have cared.