Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar'?

[Herbert1]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

Is Tasha's execution by the Romulan general for attempting to leave him and take their daughter as described in "Redemption" an equally "meaningless death" or "a death without purpose" as her original death at the hands of Armus?

It was a killing without purpose. That doesn't mean it was a death without purpose. If Tasha had died trying to save Deanna and another crewperson from a flood or a fire, then the thing that tried to kill them and succeeded in killing her would've done so without purpose, but she still would've been a hero for giving her life in the attempt to save lives. The fact that Armus didn't have a reason for what he did shouldn't be seen as invalidating Tasha's reasons for putting her life on the line.

Okay, so maybe she didn't succeed in saving their lives (her crewmates did that later), but does that mean we should only honor the firefighters or police officers who died while successfully saving lives, and treat the ones who died while merely making the attempt as somehow undeserving of recognition? Of course not. That would be unjust and offensive to those heroic individuals and their families. Heroism is in the willingness to sacrifice, the determination to try. And it's petty and awful to say it doesn't count if the attempt is unsuccessful. I'm deeply offended by the notion that Tasha's death was "meaningless" or needed to be "improved."

Exactly. Is Tasha's death more meaningful or has purpose if she dies aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-C while defending Nerendra III? Is heroic sacrifice a contest to be judged on the successful outcome of the sacrifice or the number of individuals saved?

 

[Ln X]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

I was glad when Tasha got bumped off, of all the characters she held no real importance and seemed like the odd one out from the main characters. Skin of Evil is an average episode but I really love Tar man (as I like to call him, you know that black oily covered dude) for his cheesiness, both in appearance and character. I am evil, blah blah, so cliched...

 

[Kai Winn]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

I’m in the minority too. I consider “Skin of Evil” one of the classics, and easily the high point of the first season.

I agree with u 'captrek'. This episode stould out for me too as one of the best from S1. S1 was generally quite poor, but not all the episodes were nessersarily bad.

Really? I thought the episode was meaningless due to the absurd plot, and only the retirement of Tasha Yar was a redeeming factor. Never quite liked the lady and her ever same hounded facial expression.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

the absurd plot

I thought the idea of a species transferring all of their evil, hate, rage, and other wise negativity into a single individual and then leaving all of that behind them was a very interesting concept.

I wonder if Guinan's empty death pronouncement was for Tasha's death in Skin of Evil, or her eventual death at the hands of the Romulans?

The execution by the Romulans woud seem to be the more "empty" of the two.

 

[Anji]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

Anyone notice the tensions and apprehension in the performances of the cast in this episode? I have. I think they were all wondering how killing off a member of the cast so soon since the show's inception would affect the series. And I think that is was what makes this episode difficult to watch.

I have also believed that Crosby should've never quit. Was she going to get good lines and a meaningful role? NO! Because nobody had one. My goodness, the series was still in its first season and EVERYONE'S characters were still developing.

Had she held on she would've I think she would've been very happy with what she got. Siritis and McFadden were not going to get meaningful roles, because they had caring more feminine kind of roles...by which I mean caregivers to the needs of people, which has been the traditional female role all along. But Tasha was a female in a non-traditional, predominately male role. How she balanced her feminity vs. the needs of her job would have been interesting. Not to mention her relationship with Data. Both characters were in desperate need of someone to love them and they would've made a beautiful couple.

Ah, the Trek that could've been.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

Siritis and McFadden were not going to get meaningful roles, because they had caring more feminine kind of roles...by which I mean caregivers to the needs of people, which has been the traditional female role all along.

I am deeply troubled, and always have been, by the assumption that a caring role is somehow less "meaningful" than an aggressive role. It takes a lot more strength, skill, and substance to support and nurture and heal and improve people than it does to hit them or shoot them.

 

[Herbert1]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

Was the decision to kill off the Tasha Yar character Denise Crosby's or the producers? (I know that Denise Crosby became unhappy with the role and wanted to leave the series.)

 

[The Dominion]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

It was Crosby's, she wanted to leave the show because she thought she was underused, which wasn't really smart on her part since season one was the "growing pains" of the series anyway.

Really though, her death in the altered timeline was more pointless and ironic. After getting a happier end, did she really need to die again?

 

[Herbert1]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

It was Crosby's, she wanted to leave the show because she thought she was underused, which wasn't really smart on her part since season one was the "growing pains" of the series anyway.

Really though, her death in the altered timeline was more pointless and ironic. After getting a happier end, did she really need to die again?

My question really was why did they kill the character rather than just say that she was re-assigned to another posting. Or maybe it has to do with when the decision is made that an actor won't be returning to the role. If they had decided to get rid of the Dr. Crusher character earlier during Season One, would Dr. Crusher have had a death scene instead of the line of dialogue stating that she had left to head Starfleet Medical?

 

[Destructor]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

Siritis and McFadden were not going to get meaningful roles, because they had caring more feminine kind of roles...by which I mean caregivers to the needs of people, which has been the traditional female role all along.

I am deeply troubled, and always have been, by the assumption that a caring role is somehow less "meaningful" than an aggressive role. It takes a lot more strength, skill, and substance to support and nurture and heal and improve people than it does to hit them or shoot them.

Yes, but if you have a television show where the only two female roles are medical professionals and all of the combat, command and technical positions are occupied by men, it does seem as though stereotypical gender assumptions are driving the roles of those characters. In fact, it doesn't 'seem' as though it is, it just is (and was). That doesn't mean you shouldn't cast women as medical professionals, but Tasha was a refreshing break from this stereotype (just as Picard was, really, a nice break from a hypermasculine leading man), and successfully subverted the typical gender paradigms of television in the 1980s. While I wasn't exactly devastated when she died and thought the show improved in leaps and bounds from S1, it did highlight the alarming lack of equality in a supposedly egalitarian future, something that Ensign Ro only slightly mitigated.

 

[Kai Winn]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

the absurd plot

I thought the idea of a species transferring all of their evil, hate, rage, and other wise negativity into a single individual and then leaving all of that behind them was a very interesting concept.

Very interesting concept indeed, for Harry Potter or LOTR. Star Trek however might want to stick to SF, and not cross the border to fantasy. Besides, those negativities exist for good reasons, so why would an intelligent race do away with them?

 

[Christopher]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

Yes, but if you have a television show where the only two female roles are medical professionals and all of the combat, command and technical positions are occupied by men, it does seem as though stereotypical gender assumptions are driving the roles of those characters. In fact, it doesn't 'seem' as though it is, it just is (and was). That doesn't mean you shouldn't cast women as medical professionals, but Tasha was a refreshing break from this stereotype (just as Picard was, really, a nice break from a hypermasculine leading man), and successfully subverted the typical gender paradigms of television in the 1980s.

Except society considered it acceptable to put women in traditionally masculine roles by toughening them up, but not to put men in traditionally feminine roles. It's still a double standard and an unstated assumption that the ability to punch and shoot people is somehow nobler or cooler than the ability to nurture, guide, and inspire people. And that's just stupid and sick. Caregiver roles are the ones we should admire and esteem, not dismiss as subordinate.

 

[Destructor]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

Except society considered it acceptable to put women in traditionally masculine roles by toughening them up, but not to put men in traditionally feminine roles. It's still a double standard and an unstated assumption that the ability to punch and shoot people is somehow nobler or cooler than the ability to nurture, guide, and inspire people. And that's just stupid and sick. Caregiver roles are the ones we should admire and esteem, not dismiss as subordinate.

I'm not sure if you are still talking about Trek or not. McCoy was a badass doctor and, as I mentioned, Picard was a notable leading man for not being punchy or shooty. I don't dismiss the Crusher or Troi characters, but I can't help but notice that they conform to rigid gender stereotypes. I don't disagree with you that caregiver roles should be esteemed and admired- just that it's sort of beside the point.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

^But you're complaining that Crusher and Troi conformed to gender stereotypes, yet you're not complaining that Worf or Riker did so. That is the point. Why is it more objectionable for a woman to be in a conventionally female role than for a man to be a conventionally male role?

 

[Shikarnov]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

^But you're complaining that Crusher and Troi conformed to gender stereotypes, yet you're not complaining that Worf or Riker did so. That is the point. Why is it more objectionable for a woman to be in a conventionally female role than for a man to be a conventionally male role?

Perhaps it's because many women have felt that their traditional roles are the product of imposition (be it by pressure or force) -- so much so that entire activist movements were necessary in order to break those traditions.

Conversely, how much activism exists on the part of men trying cast aside their traditional roles as the head of a family, breadwinner, protector, and etc?

Largely, I think men are comfortable with the way we're depicted on television, which is why such portrayals are not objectionable (except, maybe, to the Janice Lesters of the world, who would also cringe at the way women are characterized).

 

[Destructor]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

^But you're complaining that Crusher and Troi conformed to gender stereotypes, yet you're not complaining that Worf or Riker did so. That is the point. Why is it more objectionable for a woman to be in a conventionally female role than for a man to be a conventionally male role?

By this... bizarre yardstick, it would be unfair to comment on a black character that was a collection of racial stereotypes about black people, because I haven't in the past objected to white characters who are a collection of stereotypes about white people.

There is a difference, because there was a wide array of male characters on TNG that covered a large amount of different types of characteristics. You had a thinker, a politician, a builder, an eccentric genius, a warrior, a beardy ladies man. Lots of different characters- lots of different types of men with a wide range of careers, backgrounds and depth. Then you have two female characters who are both medical professionals, both carers. Are you saying you don't see the sexism, or that you do see it but don't think it's that bad, or some third opinion that I've not picked up on?

 

[Christopher]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

^What I'm saying is that I'm offended by the implied attitude that being a caregiver is somehow a bad thing, or that being a fighter or killer is somehow a stronger or more important role. Any moron can break things or shoot things. Caring for people's minds and bodies, nurturing them, raising them from childhood -- these are profoundly important and challenging responsibilities and the people who do them should be admired.

 

[The Dominion]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

It was Crosby's, she wanted to leave the show because she thought she was underused, which wasn't really smart on her part since season one was the "growing pains" of the series anyway.

Really though, her death in the altered timeline was more pointless and ironic. After getting a happier end, did she really need to die again?

My question really was why did they kill the character rather than just say that she was re-assigned to another posting. Or maybe it has to do with when the decision is made that an actor won't be returning to the role. If they had decided to get rid of the Dr. Crusher character earlier during Season One, would Dr. Crusher have had a death scene instead of the line of dialogue stating that she had left to head Starfleet Medical?

It may have just been because she was still a more minor character, so a death scene would be a more memorable way for her to go out. Or else the writers just like to take revenge on female cast who walk out on the show by killing their characters? It can solve future licensing issues, anyway.

 

[Pauln6]

Re: Was 'Skin of Evil' an undignified/meaningless death for 'Tasha Yar

Christopher has a point. I don't object to Crusher or Troi being in caring roles or Worf and Riker being action heroes. My objection is the dividing line between the genders in the main cast. For example, Tasha Yar, the head of security was replaced by a bartender. In fairness, some of their efforts to spread the love were thwarted (Brooke Bundy's rather limp chief engineer was unable to return due to scheduling conflicts I think, Ashley Judd moved on and wouldn't return, as did Michelle Forbes).

One problem with Tasha was that she was the ONLY woman in security. So she was all angsty about being a girl in a tough role (wtf) while Worf was all angsty about what it meant to be a Klingon in Starfleet. Now if Tasha had been an amalgam of Tasha and Ro, we would have had a VERY interesting character who would have had a lot more stuff to be angsty about. She has a vision of being pursued by a rape gang - how is that not good fodder for some Ro-like trauma? The problem was that the show was finding its feet and the writers put no effort into giving Tasha anything interesting to do beyond the first 6 episodes. I had no idea that her death was coming though and it was rare to kill main characters back then so her death was an awesomely cool shock to me.

I think Crusher was a great character and she was used very effectively throughout the show. I think Troi was much more interesting in season one when she was treated as an advisor to Picard with nebulous limits to her abilities. As soon as they forgot that she was a senior officer and started treating her as a counselor outside the chain of command, she became very poorly utilised. She didn't really recover from that until season six when they finally put her in a standard uniform.