Was Seven a Virgin?

[hux]

First of all, Seven was held together with Borg scotch tape and bailing wire. Take the implants out and i suspect she'd have fallen to her knees, started screaming and spent the rest of the journey in a padded room dealing with the immense psychological torment of watching her parents die, having various tubes and implements inserted into her body as a tiny child as well as having to confront the emotional deformity of being nothing more than a broken child in the body of an adult woman

But hey, that would have been depressing so let's just assume that the Borg implants kept her sane (which is essentially hinted at in a couple of episodes)

With this is mind, i suspect a few people would assume she was actually a virgin

BUT i don't think it's possible. Not because of the nature of Seven but rather because of the nature of men. The numerous opportunities to take sexual advantage of Seven would surely be too enticing for a huge number of the male crew. She has no real concept of sex and only understands it as a physical function that involves no meaningful emotional or psychological element

When men straight up asked her for sex, she would have nonchalantly acquiesced (certainly in the first year at least) and knowing that men are dogs (and that Seven is beyond stunning) there must have been many men who would have happily taken advantage of this (i'm tempted to discount women cos they're not nearly as pervy or amoral)

Yes, some of the crew were gentleman and knew that it would be highly inappropriate (Harry was simply terrified and Chapman appeared inexperienced and threatened by her straight forwardness) but i'm pretty damn sure there must have been frustrated men of that boat with fewer ethical qualms and more sexual aggressiveness than those two

In truth, Seven would have been a sexual target too perfect for any man with predatory instincts to pass up

Remember when Neelix took Ch'Rega off Kim's hands in "Prophecy" (another example of his lack of libido...see Favourite son....in fact, just see any Harry Kim episode) and we saw for the first time that Neelix actually possessed a strong aggressive libido (despite never seeing this with Kes ever.....which was weird) So perhaps Neelix would have been a candidate for taking her cherry (maybe throw Dalby in there too....definitely Mortimer Harren, maybe Ayala)

But surely someone on that ship must have exploited her naivety
(hand on heart.....i'm afraid i would be one of them)

Thoughts?

 

[Orphalesion]

there must have been many men who would have happily taken advantage of this (i'm tempted to discount women cos they're not nearly as pervy or amoral)

Wow...way to gender stereotype there, buddy.....man I could introduce you to some awful, amoral women who only look upon men as the next source of sexual satisfaction. And I could show you some men who would never, ever take advantage of someone like that.

Morality is not gender specific!

but i'm pretty damn sure there must have been frustrated men of that boat with fewer ethical qualms and more sexual aggressiveness than those two

In truth, Seven would have been a sexual target too perfect for any man with predatory instincts to pass up

........

But surely someone on that ship must have exploited her naivety

Thoughts?

Out of that large a crew? ore tan likely and quite a bit of Fridge horror, since it could be linked to statutory rape, since you could argue Seven's mindset was not developed enough to give or withhold consent to sexual activity.
Man...it is quite realistic that she would have lost her virginity in that first year.

I'm just trying, really honestly to put myself into that position with Seven being an extremely attractive man instead... I honestly think I would have pulled a Harry... but I understand that's just me.

 

[bbjeg]

Technically, Seven experienced sex. She was part of a hive mind and probably experienced all sorts of experiences.

...men are dogs (and that Seven is beyond stunning) there must have been many men who would have happily taken advantage of this (i'm tempted to discount women cos they're not nearly as pervy or amoral) ...

That's very debatable.

 

[JoeZhang]

Thoughts?

Join the rest of us in 2014/2015 and leave behind your tired gender stereotypes?

 

[Orphalesion]

Thoughts?

Join the rest of us in 2014/2015 and leave behind your tired gender stereotypes?

(why doesn't this forum feature a like button?)

 

[hux]

Um, i was hoping for an amusing discussion about Seven and Neelix French kissing in the Jeffries tubes while Janeway vigourously spanks Kim in the background but that plan seems to have gone awry

Wow...way to gender stereotype there, buddy

Join the rest of us in 2014/2015 and leave behind your tired gender stereotypes?

Is it not common knowledge that sexual violence is perpetrated predominantly by men and predominantly against women and children. Seems like a gender stereotype based on some unfortunate yet accurate observation. I'm not entirely sure what you're arguing for or against here to be honest but seriously i'm happy to apologise for any perceived offence caused

I genuinely did just want to have an amusing chat about crew members hitting on Seven and who the most likely candidates might be

 

[USS Triumphant]

All I know is that I'm telling your mom about this thread, and we'll see how soon you're back to apologize, if you're even allowed on the 'net at all for a while.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Um, i was hoping for an amusing discussion about Seven and Neelix French kissing in the Jeffries tubes while Janeway vigourously spanks Kim in the background but that plan seems to have gone awry

It probably went to the same place that my appetite just did.

As for Seven: I don't think she was a child post-Borg. She had thousands of lifetimes of experience in her memory by virtue of her existence as a drone. So if any member of the crew decided to 'pursue' her - whether for romance, or just sex - I wouldn't count that as statutory rape or anything like that. Seven clearly knows what love and sex are, but probably considers them "irrelevant" (like she said about many other things), at least in the early stages of the show. Later on, as she became used to having emotions, she might actually desire a relationship or some other such encounter.

I sure as hell don't think that there's anyone on the crew who would be such an insensitive piece of shit as to try and "exploit" Seven, though. We sure haven't seen anyone like that. Not even Tom Paris is that bad.

 

[RoJoHen]

I must have missed the Date Rape episode.

 

[Orphalesion]

^ I meant she does not have the sense of self yet necessary to consent to sex. In the collective she did not have any sense of self determination and would not be used to be able to deny things to her peers when they ask for or demand them. However that's really only very early seven. And sure she experienced much through the collective - but all by proxy, and that appears to still be different for her than experiencing things for herself.

As to people on Voyage being that bad, it was over a hundred people there might be one or two, Lon Suder comes to mind, but he was dead already by the time Seven came aboard.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

On a ship eqipped with 2 holodecks I find it very unlikely that anyone would be sexually frustrated.

With the exception of Vorik maybe when he started to pon farr.
Didn't work for him.

Real people are for actual relationships in that that time.

That is probably what Seven herself did, not out of desire but out of curiosity.
I doubt she had any emotional attachement to her virginity at all.

 

[Melakon]

But surely someone on that ship must have exploited her naivety
(hand on heart.....i'm afraid i would be one of them)

Thoughts?

Too much information possibly.

 

[RoJoHen]

They could have had her hook up with Tuvok during that episode when he was going through Pon Farr.

I would almost prefer that to the inevitable Chakotay coupling.

 

[Orphalesion]

On a ship eqipped with 2 holodecks I find it very unlikely that anyone would be sexually frustrated.

And that's the answer. Case closed.

 

[hux]

On a ship eqipped with 2 holodecks I find it very unlikely that anyone would be sexually frustrated.

Don't various individuals throughout all the different series complain about synthahol not being a patch on the real thing? And not all sexual frustration is about the sex; sometimes it's about conquest, the chase, teaching, learning, the desire to take someone to places they've never dared to go with anyone else

But yeah, i can see Seven exploring the holodeck as a first step in the world of sex

Too much information possibly.

Yes, i've been known to go too far in my fictional relationships. You should have seen some of the disgusting things i did to Jessica Fletcher that one time

As to people on Voyage being that bad, it was over a hundred people there might be one or two, Lon Suder comes to mind, but he was dead already by the time Seven came aboard.

I saw Lon Suder as asexual

And why is it bad? You're conflating acts of physical violence with manipulative seduction. Surely that depends on how you view Seven's understanding of the situation and how best to judge that understanding. She could be the equivalent of a highly vulnerable victim, a naive teenager or a sexually confident adult with immense experience regarding pleasures of the body....we don't know.....the only thing we do know is that she lacks some interpersonal and social skills regarding human approaches to sex (leading to the phrase....you wish to copulate)

And we don't really know anything about characters and their sexuality either, do we? Not even the main characters. For all we know, Kim may take a while to feel comfortable enough to engage in a sexual relationship but once he does engage, he may be painfully dominant and kinky (unlikely in his case but the point is....the way people behave in day to day life (or their general personality type) doesn't necessarily tell us anything about their sexuality or their preferences

Hence the funnage to be had, discussing it

And that's the answer. Case closed.

Oh, alright then......i'll pack up the internet then.....go and make some tea

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Aren't you reversing roles here? The only thing we do know on this is that Seven is the one who asked abruptly Kim to remove his clothes so they could have sex. One would think that she asked that of a lot of men, after all she wanted to explore her humanity, as she herself put it, just because Kim is a scaredy cat doesn't mean that she stopped there. Note the disdain with which she subsequently treated Kim during all their further dialogues. She must have found that other men weren't so timid and therefore concluded that there was something wrong with Kim.

 

[Seven of Five]

I must have missed the Date Rape episode.

This week, it's a very special episode of Star Trek: Voyager.

 

[Keith1701]

All I know is that I'm telling your mom about this thread, and we'll see how soon you're back to apologize, if you're even allowed on the 'net at all for a while.

not sure

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Any man who tried to take advantage of Seven would have ended up with a dislocated shoulder. And if Janeway ever found out, janitor duty for the rest of the trip.

You have a good argument that Seven probably should have had more emotional trauma than she was shown to have in the series. But, when she first came to Voyager all the memories she had were from being a drone so from her perspective she wasn't a little girl who was just freed, she was a slave adjusting to being an individual. And I would also argue that her symptoms should have been more like PTSD, where she wouldn't quietly acquiesce, she'd freak out if anybody got close to her just like as if she was a rape victim.

As for whether she's a virgin. She probably got virtually devirginized in Unamatrix Zero.

Come to think of it, her forgotten memories from there might have unconsciously allowed her normal emotional development.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Any man who tried to take advantage of Seven would have ended up with a dislocated shoulder. And if Janeway ever found out, janitor duty for the rest of the trip.

You have a good argument that Seven probably should have had more emotional trauma than she was shown to have in the series. But, when she first came to Voyager all the memories she had were from being a drone so from her perspective she wasn't a little girl who was just freed, she was a slave adjusting to being an individual. And I would also argue that her symptoms should have been more like PTSD, where she wouldn't quietly acquiesce, she'd freak out if anybody got close to her just like as if she was a rape victim.

As for whether she's a virgin. She probably got virtually devirginized in Unamatrix Zero.

Come to think of it, her forgotten memories from there might have unconsciously allowed her normal emotional development.

Are we watching the same series? Seven asked Kim to remove his clothes so they could have sex. What makes you think that he's the only one? Logic dictates that he's not.

If Seven asks a man to have sex just so she can explore her humanity as she puts it, wouldn't she be the one taking advantage? If you really want to put it in adversarial terms.