Was pretty excited for this show.. but ultimately underwhelmed...

[fireproof78]

mean, show me a 20-year-old mature enough to marry a 69-year-old without it being kind of abusive, and I'll pay you every dollar in my wallet (all three of them!).

Well, I've heard stories of a couple, including a 20 year old who had started his own automotive repair shop and ran it successfully. Now, that is second hand information. I know a upper classmate of mine, 4 years my senior, who had a start up and was saving enough to retire from it in ten years. So, he was 21 or so.

Accendotal but I'm just saying I don't find it impossible; highly improbable though.

 

[Sci]

Well, I've heard stories of a couple, including a 20 year old who had started his own automotive repair shop and ran it successfully. Now, that is second hand information. I know a upper classmate of mine, 4 years my senior, who had a start up and was saving enough to retire from it in ten years. So, he was 21 or so.

Accendotal but I'm just saying I don't find it impossible; highly improbable though.

I dunno -- even having it together enough to start a business is not in my view the same thing as being mature enough to marry someone decades older than you and not have the power differential be abusive in some way.

But also: Jurati didn't even have herself together in 2399, so I definitely don't think she had herself together enough to marry someone when she was 20.

 

[fireproof78]

I dunno -- even having it together enough to start a business is not in my view the same thing as being mature enough to marry someone decades older than you and not have the power differential be abusive in some way.

But also: Jurati didn't even have herself together in 2399, so I definitely don't think she had herself together enough to marry someone when she was 20.

Well, it's not for everyone.

 

[Dar70]

Picard is not a copy now.




You know this is a short description of a sophisticated technobabble process, right? The term "map" can be interpreted in different ways, "scan, map and transfer" probably just means that his consciousness and memories had to be identified and isolated first before the actual transfer could happen. No character says Picard has been copied, duplicated or whatever, no one treats him as a copy. But the final nails in your claim's coffin are the statements from the creators of the show:


https://trekmovie.com/2020/04/02/st...losophical-fan-debate-is-picard-still-picard/



The "Admonition" promises protection from (hostile) organics, not their total annihilation. The exploding worlds are obviously the result of their own actions.

The producers of this show may think so. But tell that to the producers of TNG and remember Juliana Soong was not the real Juliana. Dr. Noonian Soong said as much. Her consciousness was copied and transferred as well into an Android body. Perhaps the Picard Showrunners should not have used the terms they did like Mapped and imprinted. Anyhow no matter how they try to ignore it. Hes not the original Picard. Merely a copy who believes he is.

 

[fireproof78]

 

[Dukhat]

He's not the original Picard. Merely a copy who believes he is.

I'm pretty sure that Picard knows that he is now a copy of the original and not the actual original Picard.

The real question is, why the hell is Picard-copy the same age as the original? I mean, what's the point of that? Wouldn't it have been more logical to have his clone body be, like, 25 years old? (Yes, I'm well aware of the in-real-life reason; I'm talking in-universe.)

 

[fireproof78]

Too shocking a transition I would guess.

Also, very much keeping with Picard as a character.

 

[Sci]

Picard is still Picard. He is not a copy, anymore than Kirk was a copy when he was in Janice Lester's body "Turnabout Intruder," or than Spock was a copy when his katra was transferred to his new body in TSFS. The process of transferring Picard's mind to the golem was different from the process of copying Juliana.

 

[Lord Garth]

What is Picard's body? Is it biological, mostly biological, or even partly biological?

My impression was that it was biological. That his new body is the same as his old one, minus the brain defect.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm pretty sure that Picard knows that he is now a copy of the original and not the actual original Picard.

The real question is, why the hell is Picard-copy the same age as the original? I mean, what's the point of that? Wouldn't it have been more logical to have his clone body be, like, 25 years old? (Yes, I'm well aware of the in-real-life reason; I'm talking in-universe.)

I think Soong and Jurati wanted to extend Picard's life to what it would've been without the brain defect. Making him physically 25 wouldn't be in the spirit of continuing his life as if he didn't have it.

Plus it probably would've raised an ethical debate within the Federation that would've been even more of a can of worms. There's a difference between extending someone's life and effectively having them be able to live it over again.

 

[Dukhat]

I think Soong and Jurati wanted to extend Picard's life to what it would've been without the brain defect. Making him physically 25 wouldn't be in the spirit of continuing his life as if he didn't have it.

I get that, but all I felt about it was that Picard has this brand-new body that will probably give out on him of old age.

 

[fireproof78]

Picard is still Picard. He is not a copy, anymore than Kirk was a copy when he was in Janice Lester's body "Turnabout Intruder," or than Spock was a copy when his katra was transferred to his new body in TSFS. The process of transferring Picard's mind to the golem was different from the process of copying Juliana.

Forget about that. Nice precedent..

 

[Lord Garth]

I get that, but all I felt about it was that Picard has this brand-new body that will probably give out on him of old age.

I think this is probably a controversial gray area within the Federation itself. They frown on genetic engineering. In general, making someone younger could probably only be done through genetic engineering. Otherwise, that old Admiral from "Too Short a Season" (TNG) wouldn't have had to resort to taking the drugs he used. So putting Picard in a new body and having him young would make it look like he's in favor of something that's a hot-button issue.

That's the way I rationalize it.

 

[EnderAKH]

For me whether he is a copy or not is a distinction without a difference. The writers are going to write him as the same guy, so there will literally be no difference between the two. So what the hell do I care if he's a copy or not? The journey he goes on in season 2 will be indistinguishable from the journey he would go through if they left that part out (emotionally, I understand there could be plot ramifications to the consciousness transfer). But he's going to look and act as the same guy we've always known, because the writers have said it's the same guy so they will write him the same. So who cares?

 

[fireproof78]

For me whether he is a copy or not is a distinction without a difference.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I cannot imagine, try as I might, how this impacts the story going down the road. If I am invested in Picard then there it is. His copy/transfer is just as valid of story as anything else.

 

[EnderAKH]

I was thinking the exact same thing. I cannot imagine, try as I might, how this impacts the story going down the road. If I am invested in Picard then there it is. His copy/transfer is just as valid of story as anything else.

Exactly! I would expect there will be plot fallout from the transfer, but he will handle it as Picard would. Because the guys writing him say he's Picard, so they are not going to write him any differently. So it is just an interesting thing that happened to Picard.

 

[YouAreDooomed]

The producers of this show may think so. But tell that to the producers of TNG and remember Juliana Soong was not the real Juliana. Dr. Noonian Soong said as much. Her consciousness was copied and transferred as well into an Android body. Perhaps the Picard Showrunners should not have used the terms they did like Mapped and imprinted. Anyhow no matter how they try to ignore it. Hes not the original Picard. Merely a copy who believes he is.

There is no reason to believe that the technique used to transfer juliana's memories is identical with the one from PIC.
The wording ("map") is kind of vague, but since the creators expressed their intention behind it, nothing proves otherwise, and all implications support Picard's "originality", he is still the same guy in a new body.
By the way, citation of "imprint"? I can't remember the term being used in the show.

 

[Sci]

Side-note: Also, if the Kirk who goes into the transporter is the same continuous person who comes out of the transporter, rather than being a copy, then the golem Picard is the same continuous person as the Picard who landed on Coppelius.

 

[Dar70]

There is no reason to believe that the technique used to transfer juliana's memories is identical with the one from PIC.
The wording ("map") is kind of vague, but since the creators expressed their intention behind it, nothing proves otherwise, and all implications support Picard's "originality", he is still the same guy in a new body.
By the way, citation of "imprint"? I can't remember the term being used in the show.

I meant to say...."scan, map and transfer a complete neural image of your brain substrates."
I dont know why I was thinking imprint..

 

[Dar70]

Side-note: Also, if the Kirk who goes into the transporter is the same continuous person who comes out of the transporter, rather than being a copy, then the golem Picard is the same continuous person as the Picard who landed on Coppelius.

I dont agree with that. People are conscious during transport for one. Second it's the same organic material rematerialized. SynthPicard no longer has any of his original organic material. Just a copy of Picards memories. That is all.