Was Kes a Good Character?

[Thomas Eugene]

Also a fair point. Honestly, I would not have minded seeing Harry go if it meant keeping Kes and having Seven of Nine come on. But, I don't like the focus that often gets directed on to Seven of Nine.

Yeah, I see what you mean - at the same time I must say I love Seven so I don't mind her being involved in so many episodes so intensively.
Also, I guess by now everyone knows the "official' version why poor Kes got the axe. However, I sometimes wonder whether part of the reason might have been that producers already knew how everyone else would be pushed into the background due to the introduction of the new character and they thought it was going to be bad enough with 9 main characters so why make it even worse by having 10 main ones? If they'd kept Kes, this would probably have meant that one more character would have been written zero to very few stories about and it was easier to let one go.
And yes, although I would have preferred ten main characters, perhaps Harry would have been a better choice. Not that I don't like him or anything but the fact that the actor had often been behaving like a diva on the set (thereby causing a lot of headache for the creators of the show) would have made it perhaps more acceptable to fans that he was let go rather than Kes.
Just guessing, of course.

 

[Lynx]

My opinion might be even less popular because I like both characters to the same extent. I always keep saying that Voyager for me is high quality from CARETAKER to ENDGAME - I see no difference there with the axing of Kes or the introduction of Seven of Yours (I'm gay, so she isn't mine, LOL! ). I do feel that there's a change in the tone when she arrives but I don't think the quality of the show changes because of that. I like all episodes of Voyager (with the exception of FURY) so whenever I sit down to watch an episode, the question of "should this be a season 1-3 or a season 4-7 episode?" never even arises.
Having said that, I'm glad to see that a lot of people share what I've often thought: if they wanted to introduce the borg then why not assimilate Kes into the Collective, not show her for a few episodes, after which our indomitable Captain and her crew rescue her. She needs reintegration into her former life, just like Seven did - and then the whole "Voyager needs to be vamped up so let's introduce the borg" problem is sorted out.
However, what I would have preferred even more was keeping all of them together. A show with ten main characters would have been fascinating and I'm sure we all would have enjoyed the interaction between Kes and Seven.

I have to disagree with the suggestion of "Kes being assimilated by the borg".

Why? Well, first of all, I just don't like the idea of Kes being assimilated by the Borg.

And then I think that there were already too many who were assimilated by the Borg and then brought back.

We had Picard, then Seven and Janeway. Then Riley and her people, then the Borg kids. Already too many.

First we were convinced that being captured and assimilated by the Borg was the worst possible thing that could happen. Then we have a lot of characters being assimilated, then rescued and brought back to normal, like if there was some Anti-Borg medicin available on every ship. "Ah, just a dose of this and you will be as new again!"

Or to make it short, it was over-done.

The Borg were a fearful enemy when they showed up in TNG. But then came Hugh, The Borg Queen, Seven, the Borg kids and all that. The Borg became too humanized and turned into a "velour enemy" and all the excitement with them was gone.

That's the problem with coming up with bad guys who are almost invincible. Sooner or later a point is reached when the good guys have to defeat them to save the Earth or something similar. Because the bad guys are almost invincible, it takes something special and spectacular to defeat them and when that card is played, the fearful enemy is not as fearful anymore. Just one of many villains.

Therefore I think that the Cardassians were better villains than the Borg. The Cardassians were more like humans and not at all invincible. But they were mean, cunning, dangerous and a constant threat and therefore more interesting than the Borg.

However, I do agree that the interaction between Kes and Seven could have been very interesting.

 

[fireproof78]

I'll agree with you on most of your points but disagree a little bit.

Now, to be clear,I don't want Kes to be assimilated by the Borg, but it could give a reason for her to be gone and then to come back. If Seven is omitted, then Kes gets the slow road to recovery of becoming part of the crew again.

Or, you don't assimilate Kes at all. She could be captured and studied by the Borg, because the Ocampa are unknown to them because of the Caretaker's protection. So, again, she's captured only to be returned later. Allows Seven to still have her arc and Kes to engage with her, possibly working to become the ship's counselor.

Also, I think the Borg were way overused in VOY.

 

[2takesfrakes]

The Borg were most definitely over-used! But when you think about ALL of those costumes left over from former shows and movies, not being used and ready for wear ... I have to admit, if I ran the show, I'd find it tempting to keep bringing them back. However, having Kes being assimilated just to become unassimilated a little too much assimilation, for me. Besides which, the Borg would not have her for long, so why bother? A few years, at best ...

 

[Sophie74656]

I apologize if this was said already.
In the beginning I loved her character. She had a rebelious streak, wanting to go to the surface, that made her interesting. I thought the idea of the Ocampa was an interesting contrast to other species we've seen before. Many species we have seen are "superior" to humans, they live longer, are stronger, have some innate abilities that humans don't have. So a species that only lived 9 years was an interesting difference. It would have opened up many interesting story lines. Kes not realising how short that time really is, watching herself age while everyone else doesn't, her friends watching her age. But as the show went on I grew to dislike her. I grew irritated by her voice and manerisms. Not the character's fault but rather the actress, I understand. I didn't think she was a good actress and for me that took away a lot from the character.

 

[2takesfrakes]

That's unfortunate that you don't like the actress playing Kes, because I think Jennifer Lien is wonderful! So beautiful ... so charming ... and I love her voice! She brought so much to the role and had all of the qualities required. There's an almost elf-like quality, to her, being the pixie she is, and all. Unfortunately, VOY decided to go in another direction and drop Kes from the show's format ... which I feel hurt the series. The same thing happened to another blonde, decades before, in STAR TREK - Grace Lee Whitney. And just like Grace, Jennifer's life fell into disarray, afterwards. Only Grace got herself together, finally. With Jennifer, and I wish to make this very strong, The Book is still being written. And we wish her The Very Best ...

 

[borgboy]

I think there was plenty of room for Kes and Seven.
Kim could easily have been dropped instead.

 

[stardream]

I think there was plenty of room for Kes and Seven.
Kim could easily have been dropped instead.

But...but he's beautiful!

 

[2takesfrakes]

Is he really? He doesn't strike me as a Babe Magnet ... which is why he was so believable as the Holodeck-addicted Harry Kim.

 

[locutus101]

To me Kim is the one who gets slapped around, mostly by seven.

 

[Sophie74656]

I think there was plenty of room for Kes and Seven.
Kim could easily have been dropped instead.

I don't think there was enough room for both. The cast was at 9 characters, the largest of all the shows. That makes it difficult to give each character time and development

 

[borgboy]

I don't think there was enough room for both. The cast was at 9 characters, the largest of all the shows. That makes it difficult to give each character time and development

That's why I suggested getting rid of Harry Kim, who almost was cut instead of Kes.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I honestly never saw the value of Harry Kim's being there, beyond acting as Tom Paris' sidekick. Kim was always portrayed as this sort of loser. I remember Kathryn trying to get the EMH to cure Harry of his obsessive tendency towards infatuation, in fact. Especially when Tom got married Torres, Harry Kim could've been jettisoned, without anyone ever noticing - and that's the truth! Even in another timeline, he's done no better. The writers could find nothing worth watching for Harry to do, so when Tom was married to Kes, instead, Harry ends up marrying their daughter, JUST to keep himself involved with the story. That's how useless the character is, where the writers have a hard time justifying his even being there, in the first place!

That's why I never got the "hate" for Kes, outside of her ridiculous Lifespan, which I agree was pretty assholed. Otherwise, she was beautiful and magical and brought a faerytale quality to VOY, which was quite charming. She was like this sprite and Neelix, of course, was this garden gnome ... then, Braga's girlfriend commandeers the show and now it's all about T&A fetching television ratings. How is this an improvement, when it's so typical and common? Even Kate Mulgrew has expressed disappointment over the fact that Kes went and the way Jennifer Lien went. Kate even described her as, "a good actress."

 

[apollo1984]

When she first started the show I thought she was too child like and naive for my liking, yet when they developed her character and gave her powers she had to go in my opinion as I could foresee too many times where her powers would be to solution to many of the problems they came across so it would be seven's nanites or Kes's powers would be the answer to everything because where else do you go with Kes after that.

 

[stardream]

Is he really? He doesn't strike me as a Babe Magnet ... which is why he was so believable as the Holodeck-addicted Harry Kim.

People Magazine thought so.

Otherwise, she was beautiful and magical and brought a faerytale quality to VOY, which was quite charming. She was like this sprite

As time went on if she had stayed she probably would have lost that 'fairytale quality' and become less and less 'magical'. What we have now is a character preserved in amber (apart from Fury-I know it's not canon but I go along with the explanation from the String Theory books) who is always beautiful and good. She would have become more real and made major mistakes that would put the ship in danger just like everyone else. I personally would like to have seen a Kes who grew up and realized the Universe is a harsh place and accepted it and that she couldn't change things just by thinking good thoughts. She could still stay positive but would have lost some of those minor Mary Sueish qualities she had. Before anyone gets upset I said 'minor'. The 'always good one who always made the right decisions' and who had powers that could see through and correct everything.

 

[Sophie74656]

Personally I liked Harry but would not have been upset to see him go. Same goes for Tuvok. I like them, but they didn't add too much.

Yes I have heard her fellow actors describe Lien as a good actor. I would expect nothing less from them. They should say that. Especially during an interview, I would say the same, it's called being polite.

 

[Sophie74656]

When she first started the show I thought she was too child like and naive for my liking, yet when they developed her character and gave her powers she had to go in my opinion as I could foresee too many times where her powers would be to solution to many of the problems they came across so it would be seven's nanites or Kes's powers would be the answer to everything because where else do you go with Kes after that.

Well she was supposed to be child like I think. Her whole species is regarded as children by the Caretaker and they were treated as such. They were kept underground with minimal knowledge of anything. When Kes left she was a year old and knew nothing. I think it would have been cute to have a scene with her exploring Voyager and being in awe at EVERYTHING. She had never seen the surface of her planet or daylight, but now she's on a starship traveling at warp speed with replicators, holodecks, unimaginable technology.

 

[apollo1984]

I think it would have been cute to have a scene with her exploring Voyager and being in awe at EVERYTHING. She had never seen the surface of her planet or daylight, but now she's on a starship traveling at warp speed with replicators, holodecks, unimaginable technology.

A bit like Jonas Quinn when he replaced Daniel Jackson was grinning at everything new, smiling while saying "its my first time in a deathglider"

 

[Sophie74656]

A bit like Jonas Quinn when he replaced Daniel Jackson was grinning at everything new, smiling while saying "its my first time in a deathglider"

Was that Stargate? I didn't watch that haha

 

[apollo1984]

Was that Stargate? I didn't watch that haha

Yeah sorry I meant to say stargate I got distracted as I am at work. I had actually forgotten about it but I caught the end of a episode last night and remembered this when I saw it.