Was Kes a Good Character?

[stardream]

The idea of her undergoing 'normal' memory loss of an aging Ocampan is not a bad idea but if that was their intent they should have made it clear it the episode. Some minor things I'll overlook or say it might have happened off screen (like rebuilding shuttles) but this was a major plot point in the story.

I didn't mind her coming back angry if say, she got back home and found the Ocampans had been assimilated or perhaps overrun by the Kazon and discovering it was all Voyager's fault. Saying she randomly 'forgot' was weak and so were her reasons.

 

[fireproof78]

The idea of her undergoing 'normal' memory loss of an aging Ocampan is not a bad idea but if that was their intent they should have made it clear it the episode. Some minor things I'll overlook or say it might have happened off screen (like rebuilding shuttles) but this was a major plot point in the story.

I didn't mind her coming back angry if say, she got back home and found the Ocampans had been assimilated or perhaps overrun by the Kazon and discovering it was all Voyager's fault. Saying she randomly 'forgot' was weak and so were her reasons.

This is my part of frustration. There are a lot of great concepts that could be used to explain simple aspects to the episode, but just don't get added in.

As for Kes, I thought her range of emotion was just fine. To each their own.

 

[Lynx]

Sounds good! But tell me, though ... did the words hold?

It did actually work.
The "String Theory" books came up with a decent way to get rid of the damage made to the character in horrible episodes like "The Gift" and that one in season 6.

The "Dark Matter" trilogy was also OK even if it contained too much of the "The Gift" mumbo-jumbo and the fact that the author had to rewrite some of it due to that horrible episode in season 6.

Still, I do think that my "Coming Home" story has the best solution of them all.

 

[bajorangirl]

I liked Kes. In her last few episodes we got to see how far she had come (medical knowledge, using her powers). It would have been nice to see her grow even more and take on more of a Troi position as she did in Scorpoin pt1 & 2. Instead her powers became more over the top fantastical.

 

[Lynx]

well spoiler alert if you're interested......in one of the novels Janeway "dies" and with the help of Q and Kes she comes back. We see Kes back on her homeworld and how things have progressed there. She has a son also.

I know a lot of people liked her, but I never did. To each their own. For me the moment when I really began to notice how bad she was was in Persistance of Vision. Janeway is in sickbay and Kes is there. Kes is supposed to shudder like she has a chill, and instead she has this crazy convulsion like she's having a seizure and is like "oh I felt a chill". It looked so rediculous. After that all of her annoying habits kept jumping out at me.

I see nothing ridiculous in her actions.

Maybe that's how Ocampas react when they have a chill or maybe the force she encountered was so strong that she reacted that way. Just look at how Janeway and the others reacted when they encountered the force of the Bothan.

"Persistence Of Vision" is an excellent episode, one of Voyager's best. Here Kes shows how brave she can be when she face something threatening and she manage to overcome her fear and save the ship as well.

 

[locutus101]

The idea of her undergoing 'normal' memory loss of an aging Ocampan is not a bad idea but if that was their intent they should have made it clear it the episode. Some minor things I'll overlook or say it might have happened off screen (like rebuilding shuttles) but this was a major plot point in the story.

I didn't mind her coming back angry if say, she got back home and found the Ocampans had been assimilated or perhaps overrun by the Kazon and discovering it was all Voyager's fault. Saying she randomly 'forgot' was weak and so were her reasons.

She had no reason for being angry with Janeway and the Voyager crew. The only explanation is that she was crazy and that's bullshit because it simply means that they created a plot out of nothing.

 

[Kemaiku]

People are still getting upset over the token Pixie? okay then.

 

[Lynx]

She had no reason for being angry with Janeway and the Voyager crew. The only explanation is that she was crazy and that's bullshit because it simply means that they created a plot out of nothing.

That's right. The only reason for coming up with that thin plot was because they wanted to "show the finger" to the Kes fans.

 

[Sophie74656]

That's right. The only reason for coming up with that thin plot was because they wanted to "show the finger" to the Kes fans.

It kind of just sounds like you take her leavig personally. I would not be happy if my favorite character was written off the show either but I definately wouldn't assume it was a personal thing. TV shows live by their fans. If they don't have fans, they don't have a show and they don't have money. So it really makes absolutely no sense that they would purposely do something to piss off their fanbase.

 

[Lynx]

It kind of just sounds like you take her leavig personally. I would not be happy if my favorite character was written off the show either but I definately wouldn't assume it was a personal thing. TV shows live by their fans. If they don't have fans, they don't have a show and they don't have money. So it really makes absolutely no sense that they would purposely do something to piss off their fanbase.

There are reasons why I think that episode was a "finger" to the Kes fans.

There was a campaign going for having Kes back as a regular character and what I know, those in charge knew about it.

Faced with that, they had some options.

The first option was to simply do what the fans wanted and simply bring back the character.

The second option was to ignore the fans and their request for having the character back. They could also have made a statement why it was impossible to bring back the character in that case.

Instead they came up with a totally horrible story in which the character was totally destroyed and humiliated. Just as if they thought: "You wanted your favorite back. Well eat this, you scum and don't you dare to question our decisions again because we are in charge!"

There was no point in coming up with this story at all. It had no impact on the ongoing Voyager story itself, it was no part of any arc or something like that and why bring back a character which they had done everything for three years to make the viewers forget.

It was just rude and offensive.

And when they realized that the episode wasn't well received by the fans, to say the least, there were no apologies, no explanations or any attempt to correct what they had done.

And I don't think they cared about the fanbase either. It was the end of season 6, the next season would be the last and they were starting to prepare for their next pet project "Enterprise" so they were just phasing out their efforts for Voyager.

Not to mention that they did "show the finger" to the fanbase one more time when they insulted the J/C-ers with certain events in "Endgame".

 

[Sophie74656]

There are reasons why I think that episode was a "finger" to the Kes fans.

There was a campaign going for having Kes back as a regular character and what I know, those in charge knew about it.

Faced with that, they had some options.

The first option was to simply do what the fans wanted and simply bring back the character.

The second option was to ignore the fans and their request for having the character back. They could also have made a statement why it was impossible to bring back the character in that case.

Instead they came up with a totally horrible story in which the character was totally destroyed and humiliated. Just as if they thought: "You wanted your favorite back. Well eat this, you scum and don't you dare to question our decisions again because we are in charge!"

There was no point in coming up with this story at all. It had no impact on the ongoing Voyager story itself, it was no part of any arc or something like that and why bring back a character which they had done everything for three years to make the viewers forget.

It was just rude and offensive.

And when they realized that the episode wasn't well received by the fans, to say the least, there were no apologies, no explanations or any attempt to correct what they had done.

And I don't think they cared about the fanbase either. It was the end of season 6, the next season would be the last and they were starting to prepare for their next pet project "Enterprise" so they were just phasing out their efforts for Voyager.

Not to mention that they did "show the finger" to the fanbase one more time when they insulted the J/C-ers with certain events in "Endgame".

why should there be an apology? some hated it, some liked it, just like with everything in life. There are episodes that I've seen you say you dislike that I like, and some that I dislike that you like. It's just personal opinion.

Without actually being there we don't know why the character was not brought back. For all anyone knows the actress didn't want to come back. I have seen her speak at several conventions and she was very clear that her contract had ended and she moved on and had little interest in coming back. She said she had enough other work to keep her busy. That is a typical life for an actor.

If you want to take it personally that's up to you. I doubt the actress takes it personally. To each their own. I woudn't take it personally

 

[Sophie74656]

She had no reason for being angry with Janeway and the Voyager crew. The only explanation is that she was crazy and that's bullshit because it simply means that they created a plot out of nothing.

I could understand her reasoning for being angry. She was older and had more experience and her memory was degrading. Kind of like someone with Alzheimers. Looking back on her life with her broken memories she saw things wrong, she saw herself as someone very young take from her home and she was angry about that.

 

[locutus101]

I could understand her reasoning for being angry. She was older and had more experience and her memory was degrading. Kind of like someone with Alzheimers. Looking back on her life with her broken memories she saw things wrong, she saw herself as someone very young take from her home and she was angry about that.

I understand that that's what we were supposed to believe but I don't buy it. To me it's utter bullshit. The whole episode stinks.

 

[Yanks]

I could understand her reasoning for being angry. She was older and had more experience and her memory was degrading. Kind of like someone with Alzheimers. Looking back on her life with her broken memories she saw things wrong, she saw herself as someone very young take from her home and she was angry about that.

I think we've been through this before. altzimers doesn't fit here.

 

[Sophie74656]

I think we've been through this before. altzimers doesn't fit here.

I don't know, just trying to make some sense. It works to me, I have personal experience with someone who has it and I notice some paralells in th behaviors.

 

[Sophie74656]

I understand that that's what we were supposed to believe but I don't buy it. To me it's utter bullshit. The whole episode stinks.

to each their own, I kind of like it

 

[locutus101]

to each their own, I kind of like it

Well, you're entitled to it.

 

[stardream]

If they wanted old age forgetfulness to be part of the story they should have brought it up in the story. There are a lot of things that I will overlook and do not need to have spelled out for me but in this particular case, it would be a MAJOR PLOT POINT.

 

[Sophie74656]

If they wanted old age forgetfulness to be part of the story they should have brought it up in the story. There are a lot of things that I will overlook and do not need to have spelled out for me but in this particular case, it would be a MAJOR PLOT POINT.

I always thought it was pretty clearly explained in Before and After

 

[locutus101]

I always thought it was pretty clearly explained in Before and After

In before and after it was the chronoton whattachmacallum that caused the forgetfulness. It was shown later as she was able to catch up pretty quick while travelling back through time.