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Was Kes a Good Character?

Was Kes a Good Character?

  • Yes, definitely.

    Votes: 28 24.1%
  • No, she was poor.

    Votes: 15 12.9%
  • Had potential but it was never realised.

    Votes: 65 56.0%
  • No better or worse than any of the others.

    Votes: 8 6.9%

  • Total voters
    116
But don't Janeway and seven both want to explore and learn? One for perfection one for her own scientific curiosity. I do agree that Kes was unique in the sense she is not strong willed in a way Janeway was, and could sometimes offer an alternate perspective. But I feel that for me seven was so much more, maybe as she was allowed to develop more with a larger variety of episodes focused on her. Certainly for me I wouldn't say Kes leaving was something that affected my watching of the show. And I through enjoyed seasons 4 to 7.

I must say I may feel like this due to her underdevelopment. However I must comment her performance in the episode where she became an alien warlord ( Cant remember its name) was simply fantastic credit to her for that. I think if she had more episodes like that I may have appreciated her more.

I can't see what would make Seven a better character than Kes and why they actually added her to the show, unless for the "sexy babe" option.

Did they want a beautiful blonde? They had Kes!
Did they want a smart, curious, brave female character? They had Kes!
Did they want a tough, determined female character? They had Janeway!
Did they want a tough female action character? They had B'Elanna Torres!
Did they want a female tech wizard who could fix everything which malfunctioned? They had B'Elanna Torres!
Did they want someone who was searching for his/her humanity? They had The Doctor!

So why bring in something they already got? Why not use the excellent characters who already were there?

And why kick out an excellent character with a lot of potential? If they really wanted Seven, they could have kept all the others.

I must admit that I actually liked Star Trek Voyager better than Star Trek Seven Of Nine.

I never found Kes underdeveloped in any way. OK, some things could have been done better but that's the same for the other characters as well.

As for the episode where Kes weretaken over by an alien wrlord, the name of the episode is "Warlord. :)

Excellent episode, one of my top 5 episodes! :bolian:
 
I can't see what would make Seven a better character than Kes and why they actually added her to the show, unless for the "sexy babe" option.

Did they want a beautiful blonde? They had Kes!
Did they want a smart, curious, brave female character? They had Kes!
Did they want a tough, determined female character? They had Janeway!
Did they want a tough female action character? They had B'Elanna Torres!
Did they want a female tech wizard who could fix everything which malfunctioned? They had B'Elanna Torres!
Did they want someone who was searching for his/her humanity? They had The Doctor!

So why bring in something they already got? Why not use the excellent characters who already were there?

And why kick out an excellent character with a lot of potential? If they really wanted Seven, they could have kept all the others.

I must admit that I actually liked Star Trek Voyager better than Star Trek Seven Of Nine.

I never found Kes underdeveloped in any way. OK, some things could have been done better but that's the same for the other characters as well.

As for the episode where Kes weretaken over by an alien wrlord, the name of the episode is "Warlord. :)

Excellent episode, one of my top 5 episodes! :bolian:

Some fantastic points made there, you are evidently a passionate Kes fan. I certainly think it would've been ideal to keep Kes and simply add seven of nine to the show since they fill very different niche's, Kes as you say is smart and curious and can almost be niave at times. And although you are correct seven is a fantastic engineer a bold woman and is finding her humanity just like the doctor janeway and torres. Seven is something more for me and I think that's the unknown transition from borg to human that has never been seen before and is defenitly different to data and the doctors transformations. I think that's what made me enjoy her as a character so much. But it's a real shame a chracter with potential was moved on because of that.

I 100% agree Kes had potential and there were writer mistakes for me. Like her telepathic ablities that were always there but suddenly caused a massive implosion in just one episode that kiled her. That story line could've been built over a season or even the whole show her telepathic/empathic ablities in seasons 4/7 would have been interesting to see.

I do also agree that a large part of later episodes were solely focused on seven and this should have been spread more to allow for chrcaters that were underplayed like Mr Kim (and kes if they had kept her). But I beileve they were playing to the fan's wishes of having as much screen time with the "sexy babe" as possible. Although Jeri Ryan is beautiful that is not why I enjoyed her screen time. It was the fantastic acting that pulled me in.

I don't mean to offend you by this. Just a friendly discussion :D
 
I can't see what would make Seven a better character than Kes and why they actually added her to the show, unless for the "sexy babe" option.

Did they want a beautiful blonde? They had Kes!
Did they want a smart, curious, brave female character? They had Kes!
Did they want a tough, determined female character? They had Janeway!
Did they want a tough female action character? They had B'Elanna Torres!
Did they want a female tech wizard who could fix everything which malfunctioned? They had B'Elanna Torres!
Did they want someone who was searching for his/her humanity? They had The Doctor!

So why bring in something they already got? Why not use the excellent characters who already were there?

And why kick out an excellent character with a lot of potential? If they really wanted Seven, they could have kept all the others.

I must admit that I actually liked Star Trek Voyager better than Star Trek Seven Of Nine.

I never found Kes underdeveloped in any way. OK, some things could have been done better but that's the same for the other characters as well.

As for the episode where Kes weretaken over by an alien wrlord, the name of the episode is "Warlord. :)

Excellent episode, one of my top 5 episodes! :bolian:

Yes Lynx, to all those questions you offered. However, the one you failed to include, was the overriding reason as I understand it, for Seven's addition. Did they want a Borg? I'll admit that my recollection of timing as to the revelation of the DQ as their home turf is not fully clicking right now, but it only makes sense that the arc of Voyager's journey would at some point become focused, to a large extent, on conflicts with the Borg. While the idea of a former drone becoming part of the cast, was not determined from the outset, that it should happen when it did, right around the broadcast of Blood Fever (when the Borg presence was shown to be ahead), can be divined as random, serendipitous, calculated, or any mix thereof, but it was also a fact that the show's ratings weren't exactly eliciting handstands at the time either. Could this new cast member have been male? Sure, but that had already been in the Trekverse. If the decision was made to have the character be a female, what possible reason would have discounted or naysayed the choice for her to be rather an attractive one? Anticipation of vociferous objections from Kate Mulgrew? Not likely.

This could seen to be a an important element in a confluence of events that had the possibility of doing significant good for those viewer counts. Regular engagements with a surefire popular and malevolent Starfleet enemy, but having Voyager's efforts against them supported by a converted one of their number, who just happened to be a physically captivating one, which would also make the focus of her continuing reclamation more compelling to follow. So, I wouldn't look at the genesis of Seven's presence in the fairly reductionist manner that you do, but as one that had some moving pieces attached to it, and more significantly, was a reasonable one to make at that time vis-a-vis both the implications of the journey's travels up to that point and the stalled ratings. Now that isn't to suggest at all, that Kes, or anyone else for that matter, should have been removed from the cast as an accompanying maneuver, especially Kes as she could have played a pivotal role as Seven's guide, in addition to her own continued personal development. But I don't believe that the bean counters could be compelled to accept the logic of that proposition, and away Kes went.
 
Yes Lynx, to all those questions you offered. However, the one you failed to include, was the overriding reason as I understand it, for Seven's addition. Did they want a Borg? I'll admit that my recollection of timing as to the revelation of the DQ as their home turf is not fully clicking right now, but it only makes sense that the arc of Voyager's journey would at some point become focused, to a large extent, on conflicts with the Borg. While the idea of a former drone becoming part of the cast, was not determined from the outset, that it should happen when it did, right around the broadcast of Blood Fever (when the Borg presence was shown to be ahead), can be divined as random, serendipitous, calculated, or any mix thereof, but it was also a fact that the show's ratings weren't exactly eliciting handstands at the time either. Could this new cast member have been male? Sure, but that had already been in the Trekverse. If the decision was made to have the character be a female, what possible reason would have discounted or naysayed the choice for her to be rather an attractive one? Anticipation of vociferous objections from Kate Mulgrew? Not likely.

This could seen to be a an important element in a confluence of events that had the possibility of doing significant good for those viewer counts. Regular engagements with a surefire popular and malevolent Starfleet enemy, but having Voyager's efforts against them supported by a converted one of their number, who just happened to be a physically captivating one, which would also make the focus of her continuing reclamation more compelling to follow. So, I wouldn't look at the genesis of Seven's presence in the fairly reductionist manner that you do, but as one that had some moving pieces attached to it, and more significantly, was a reasonable one to make at that time vis-a-vis both the implications of the journey's travels up to that point and the stalled ratings. Now that isn't to suggest at all, that Kes, or anyone else for that matter, should have been removed from the cast as an accompanying maneuver, especially Kes as she could have played a pivotal role as Seven's guide, in addition to her own continued personal development. But I don't believe that the bean counters could be compelled to accept the logic of that proposition, and away Kes went.

Well said sir. A much better written paragraph than mine xD I completely agree with what you said the former borg element to seven really makes her something more in Voyager. And it defenitly bumped viewer ratings
 
Although she was mostly unconscious in this episode, it was all about her:
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Some fantastic points made there, you are evidently a passionate Kes fan. I certainly think it would've been ideal to keep Kes and simply add seven of nine to the show since they fill very different niche's, Kes as you say is smart and curious and can almost be niave at times. And although you are correct seven is a fantastic engineer a bold woman and is finding her humanity just like the doctor janeway and torres. Seven is something more for me and I think that's the unknown transition from borg to human that has never been seen before and is defenitly different to data and the doctors transformations. I think that's what made me enjoy her as a character so much. But it's a real shame a chracter with potential was moved on because of that.

I 100% agree Kes had potential and there were writer mistakes for me. Like her telepathic ablities that were always there but suddenly caused a massive implosion in just one episode that kiled her. That story line could've been built over a season or even the whole show her telepathic/empathic ablities in seasons 4/7 would have been interesting to see.

I do also agree that a large part of later episodes were solely focused on seven and this should have been spread more to allow for chrcaters that were underplayed like Mr Kim (and kes if they had kept her). But I beileve they were playing to the fan's wishes of having as much screen time with the "sexy babe" as possible. Although Jeri Ryan is beautiful that is not why I enjoyed her screen time. It was the fantastic acting that pulled me in.

I don't mean to offend you by this. Just a friendly discussion :D
I don't feel offended at all. I enjoy a friendly discussion.

Kes was never killed off in any episode. However, they did use those telepathic abilities to get rid of the character in a very silly wasy in the crap episode "The Gift".

Otherwise her abilities weren't that extraordinary, other than in "Cold Fire" and then it was because of Tanis and his influence on her. When he left, her abilities went back to normal.
 
Seven of Nine's role was to bring back fanboys to the show. Naked-Bimbo with an attitude... Berman style. I'd rather Kes' motivations, and class better than what was seen later. But the show wanted to inherit or monkey off of the Picard/ Data relationship, which became the norm in those sh*tty TNG movies, for Janeway. It's hard to tell if it worked when it's clear the writings on the wall of Voyager was to be TNG.
 
Yes Lynx, to all those questions you offered. However, the one you failed to include, was the overriding reason as I understand it, for Seven's addition. Did they want a Borg? I'll admit that my recollection of timing as to the revelation of the DQ as their home turf is not fully clicking right now, but it only makes sense that the arc of Voyager's journey would at some point become focused, to a large extent, on conflicts with the Borg. While the idea of a former drone becoming part of the cast, was not determined from the outset, that it should happen when it did, right around the broadcast of Blood Fever (when the Borg presence was shown to be ahead), can be divined as random, serendipitous, calculated, or any mix thereof, but it was also a fact that the show's ratings weren't exactly eliciting handstands at the time either. Could this new cast member have been male? Sure, but that had already been in the Trekverse. If the decision was made to have the character be a female, what possible reason would have discounted or naysayed the choice for her to be rather an attractive one? Anticipation of vociferous objections from Kate Mulgrew? Not likely.

This could seen to be a an important element in a confluence of events that had the possibility of doing significant good for those viewer counts. Regular engagements with a surefire popular and malevolent Starfleet enemy, but having Voyager's efforts against them supported by a converted one of their number, who just happened to be a physically captivating one, which would also make the focus of her continuing reclamation more compelling to follow. So, I wouldn't look at the genesis of Seven's presence in the fairly reductionist manner that you do, but as one that had some moving pieces attached to it, and more significantly, was a reasonable one to make at that time vis-a-vis both the implications of the journey's travels up to that point and the stalled ratings. Now that isn't to suggest at all, that Kes, or anyone else for that matter, should have been removed from the cast as an accompanying maneuver, especially Kes as she could have played a pivotal role as Seven's guide, in addition to her own continued personal development. But I don't believe that the bean counters could be compelled to accept the logic of that proposition, and away Kes went.
My impression is that the writers started to lose direction in season 3.

With the Kazon left behind and the Vidiians too, they obviously didn't have the skill to come up with new ideas for new species, new adventures and really using the excellent characters they had. Instead they were worried about the ratings, not realizing that spinoff shows very rarely get bigger ratings than the main show, in this case TNG.

Instead of doing what the DS9 staff did, creating an unique show and using the excellent characters they had, the VOY staff started to go for cheap effects in order to increase the ratings. Sort of:

"Let's bring in The Borg. The viewers love The Borg!"
"Let's bring in a sexy babe! The viewers love Baywatch, they love sexy babes!"
"Let's bring in more TNG characters! The viewers love TNG!"

The result was that they over-used The Borg (who in my opinion were finished already in TNG when they became "humanized with characters like Hugh and The Borg Queen), they over-used Seven so she all of a sudden became the main character of the show and we got holographic TNG characters jumping on and off the ship in the later seasons, a ship which was suppsed to be lost in the Delta Quadrant. No wait, they already ruined the main concept for the show in the season 4 episode "Message In A Bottle".

When that didn't work as they planned because the ratings never reached what they did have in season 1 and 2, it was like they thought:

"Let's get the **** out of here as soon as possible and give the finger to some annoying fans by doing that!"

So instead of a decent Kes come-back (which would have been much appreciated by many fans) and a Chakotay-Janeway "happy end" (which would have been much appreciated by even more fans), we got that horrible, insulting piece of crap in season 4 which ruined the character Kes :mad: and we got the Chakotay-Seven thing out of nowhere at the end of the series. They couldn't even come up with a decent end episode with a decent homecoming for our heroes. Instead we got that confusing mumbo-jumbo in "Endg..." ooops sorry "Endshame".

And they just had to dump Neelix before the end too! :(
 
For me, I'm inclined to agree with Lynx regarding Kes and Seven of Nine. While I wasn't fully engaged with VOY at the time, when Scorpion aired I actually got interested again. Unfortunately, Kes was gone the next episode I watched, and I was left with Seven of Nine and her catsuit wardrobe. Maybe it worked for some audience members and kept them coming back-I know one friend of mine thoroughly enjoyed VOY and loved the character Seven of Nine.

I'm sorry, I got tired of Seven of Nine very quickly. Her character arc was certainly interesting, and looking back it could be considered well done. But, as mentioned, her shoehorned romance plot with Chakotay, and the focus on Seven was not enough to keep me engaged. I don't know if Kes would be either, but I certainly see more missed opportunities with her.
 
For me, I'm inclined to agree with Lynx regarding Kes and Seven of Nine. While I wasn't fully engaged with VOY at the time, when Scorpion aired I actually got interested again.
Unfortunately, Kes was gone the next episode I watched, and I was left with Seven of Nine and her catsuit wardrobe. Maybe it worked for some audience members and kept them coming back-I know one friend of mine thoroughly enjoyed VOY and loved the character Seven of Nine.

I'm sorry, I got tired of Seven of Nine very quickly. Her character arc was certainly interesting, and looking back it could be considered well done. But, as mentioned, her shoehorned romance plot with Chakotay, and the focus on Seven was not enough to keep me engaged. I don't know if Kes would be either, but I certainly see more missed opportunities with her.

Absolutely agree with the few references above about seven of nine and Chakotay. What an awful decision the relationship made very little sense in context there was very little build up. (I'm aware seven tried dating a holographic Chakotay but it was just a trial and as far as I'm aware he never found out? )

I assume that some people enjoyed seven as the cat suit hot borg. For me she was not thst she was an enjoyable intellectual character with good story and developmemt, but she took a little too much of the story focus leaving chracter like harry underdeveloped in seasons 4/7.

Would I have enjoyed Kes for all seasons and no seven of nine? Probably not Kes was never my favorite character but from rewatching the show I just started to see her role in the changing of the doctor. She is absolutely pivotal in the instagation of the doctors road to humanity, so I admire her for that.

I think the ideal solution would have been to keep Kes and Seven there defenitly could of been development there that was lost and I was really very sad they both couldn't stay. I certainly do not feel adding seven however was a mistake.

Someone mentioned Neelix above and how it was sad he left agreed. But I actually quite liked the way he left and defenitly think he would've wanted to stay with the Talxians.
 
My impression is that the writers started to lose direction in season 3.

With the Kazon left behind and the Vidiians too, they obviously didn't have the skill to come up with new ideas for new species, new adventures and really using the excellent characters they had. Instead they were worried about the ratings, not realizing that spinoff shows very rarely get bigger ratings than the main show, in this case TNG.

Instead of doing what the DS9 staff did, creating an unique show and using the excellent characters they had, the VOY staff started to go for cheap effects in order to increase the ratings. Sort of:

"Let's bring in The Borg. The viewers love The Borg!"
:(

While the ratings were indeed a concern as that season unfolded, I would once again suggest, that the introduction of the Borg as an adversary (too frequently used perhaps), was not a result of that situation. It would strain credulity to maintain that the show runners did not intend to have them emerge as major protagonists, if not a near constant threat, at some point in the series. What other reason really would be needed to justify this aspect of the show's long term plan, than the fact that the DQ was the Borg's home? Indeed, it would have seemed quite strange if the way that Voyager played out, one saw them only infrequently or hardly at all. Now, the idea of an ex-Borg joining the cast, was not preordained from the beginning, and its genesis certainly was tied in with the idea that the concept would be a ratings winner. I think though, whether male or female,
it would be hard to argue against the appearance of that character being one of very significant physical allure. I wouldn't have been surprised, that if male, the get-up that the now mostly human figure would have been given (or saddled with depending on one's point of view) might have been as equally provocative as Seven's, studly even.:lol: As you point out, which must give you some degree of satisfaction, Seven's introduction gave the show only a very brief ratings push and certainly didn't turn out to be a long term problem solver, if you will.


Absolutely agree with the few references above about seven of nine and Chakotay. What an awful decision the relationship made very little sense in context there was very little build up. (I'm aware seven tried dating a holographic Chakotay but it was just a trial and as far as I'm aware he never found out? )

One point that I made some time ago, but not in recent defenses of the Chakotay-Seven relationship, is that however jarring it seemed to a vast majority of the viewers, it served an essential purpose, that unfortunately appears to have been viewed as needing to be met in very conventional manner. Early on, there was the thought that Seven might ultimately die, in a sacrificial gesture that might have saved the ship or insured its safe return to Earth, as a means of illustrating the culmination of her reintegration into the human family. Once that concept was scuttled, I believe that it became necessary to find another marker, that would, upon the successful completion of Voyager's journey, and her reintroduction to her home planet, would signify that parallel completion of her own lengthy and difficult path. What would that be? Well it wasn't exactly thinking outside the box and it certainly had been pointed to as a primary goal for her to attain for quite some time. While not minimizing the fulfillment that allowing herself to finally and without reservation be emotionally open to another person, this means of writing her final chapter is somewhat disappointing, perhaps simply because of its predictability and lack of imagination.

If one accepts the premise that this was the means the show runners had settled on to conclude her story, it was just a matter of a process of elimination, as to who was going to catch the bouquet. The choice was pretty obvious, but just consider the other contenders. Kim? No, his primary concern was to get back home to Mom and Dad as soon as possible. The Doctor? His future lay in the pursuit of creative and boundary breaking endeavors, and besides he still didn't have a name. That left Chakotay, and for all the those who cite this match's gross incongruity, I think that it does make sense in more than a few ways, upon which I've elaborated before, and would only further remark at this point, that the only other individual that would plausibly and truthfully make more sense, would have been Axum, and as the saying goes, that would be a whole other story.
 
While the ratings were indeed a concern as that season unfolded, I would once again suggest, that the introduction of the Borg as an adversary (too frequently used perhaps), was not a result of that situation. It would strain credulity to maintain that the show runners did not intend to have them emerge as major protagonists, if not a near constant threat, at some point in the series. What other reason really would be needed to justify this aspect of the show's long term plan, than the fact that the DQ was the Borg's home? Indeed, it would have seemed quite strange if the way that Voyager played out, one saw them only infrequently or hardly at all. Now, the idea of an ex-Borg joining the cast, was not preordained from the beginning, and its genesis certainly was tied in with the idea that the concept would be a ratings winner. I think though, whether male or female,
it would be hard to argue against the appearance of that character being one of very significant physical allure. I wouldn't have been surprised, that if male, the get-up that the now mostly human figure would have been given (or saddled with depending on one's point of view) might have been as equally provocative as Seven's, studly even.:lol: As you point out, which must give you some degree of satisfaction, Seven's introduction gave the show only a very brief ratings push and certainly didn't turn out to be a long term problem solver, if you will.




One point that I made some time ago, but not in recent defenses of the Chakotay-Seven relationship, is that however jarring it seemed to a vast majority of the viewers, it served an essential purpose, that unfortunately appears to have been viewed as needing to be met in very conventional manner. Early on, there was the thought that Seven might ultimately die, in a sacrificial gesture that might have saved the ship or insured its safe return to Earth, as a means of illustrating the culmination of her reintegration into the human family. Once that concept was scuttled, I believe that it became necessary to find another marker, that would, upon the successful completion of Voyager's journey, and her reintroduction to her home planet, would signify that parallel completion of her own lengthy and difficult path. What would that be? Well it wasn't exactly thinking outside the box and it certainly had been pointed to as a primary goal for her to attain for quite some time. While not minimizing the fulfillment that allowing herself to finally and without reservation be emotionally open to another person, this means of writing her final chapter is somewhat disappointing, perhaps simply because of its predictability and lack of imagination.

If one accepts the premise that this was the means the show runners had settled on to conclude her story, it was just a matter of a process of elimination, as to who was going to catch the bouquet. The choice was pretty obvious, but just consider the other contenders. Kim? No, his primary concern was to get back home to Mom and Dad as soon as possible. The Doctor? His future lay in the pursuit of creative and boundary breaking endeavors, and besides he still didn't have a name. That left Chakotay, and for all the those who cite this match's gross incongruity, I think that it does make sense in more than a few ways, upon which I've elaborated before, and would only further remark at this point, that the only other individual that would plausibly and truthfully make more sense, would have been Axum, and as the saying goes, that would be a whole other story.

You've really highlighted the relationship in a new light for me. I feel my frustration at the pairing of Chakotay and seven blinded me and I didn't think are there really any other pairings? I feel for me what upset me was Chakotay and Janeway had so much build up always getting closer and then seven suddenly appeared and it really disappointed me. However, Janeway may have not taken that risk of going back if Chakotay had not been in the state he was after seven's death. If it had been Harry would she have gone back? You're absolutely spot on. I believe without a story change it wouldn't be possible. An excellent observation sir.
 
It isn't the pairing that I minded, so much as the random aspect of it, as well as the rather trite way it is treated in the season finale. Regardless of who should be matched up with whom, the emotional impact is difficult to be felt when Chakotay originally starts the episode dead and then is in a relationship.

The argument is well articulated in that the story might have been one of the few ways to move the story forward, but that doesn't change my emotional ability to connect. I'm glad others can, and do, but it isn't for me. I think there are a variety of other ways to move the story along.
 
It isn't the pairing that I minded, so much as the random aspect of it, as well as the rather trite way it is treated in the season finale. Regardless of who should be matched up with whom, the emotional impact is difficult to be felt when Chakotay originally starts the episode dead and then is in a relationship.

The argument is well articulated in that the story might have been one of the few ways to move the story forward, but that doesn't change my emotional ability to connect. I'm glad others can, and do, but it isn't for me. I think there are a variety of other ways to move the story along.

Yeah I completely understand this. The only precursor was the holographic Chakotay and even then he never found out about it as far as I'm aware. So yes it was so hard to realy connect to the story and understand why Janeway went back (As I thibk Chakotay was one of the main reasons) and also hard to connect to the characters themselves.

As stated above were there thay many other options ? I'm not sure. But just a better plot line would've been good. The only other idea I can think of go avoid Chakotay/Seven relationship without changing the plot is a lesbian or gay relationship and I'm not sure how well that would go down.
 
There are possibilities, and how well they could have been executed is anyone's guess. Again, personally, for me, and where I was at the time, I don't think I wanted to see Seven with anyone. That didn't need to be a part of her growth as a character is for her to end up in a relationship. I think that a relationship between Chakotay and Janeway could have been more interesting, and his death could still be the push for her to go back in time. Maybe both Seven and Chakotay are killed and Janeway blames Seven for his death. Again, lots of potential for conflict, but Seven doesn't have to be in a romantic relationship for it to work.
 
It isn't the pairing that I minded, so much as the random aspect of it, as well as the rather trite way it is treated in the season finale. Regardless of who should be matched up with whom, the emotional impact is difficult to be felt when Chakotay originally starts the episode dead and then is in a relationship.

The argument is well articulated in that the story might have been one of the few ways to move the story forward, but that doesn't change my emotional ability to connect. I'm glad others can, and do, but it isn't for me. I think there are a variety of other ways to move the story along.
Agreed. The episode did nothing for me either, and I felt it was a cheat on the characters. As much as I hate Janeway, I felt their pairing would've been more plausible than Seven since the Captain & Chakotay had some very close, and personal dinners together in later seasons.
 
There are possibilities, and how well they could have been executed is anyone's guess. Again, personally, for me, and where I was at the time, I don't think I wanted to see Seven with anyone. That didn't need to be a part of her growth as a character is for her to end up in a relationship. I think that a relationship between Chakotay and Janeway could have been more interesting, and his death could still be the push for her to go back in time. Maybe both Seven and Chakotay are killed and Janeway blames Seven for his death. Again, lots of potential for conflict, but Seven doesn't have to be in a romantic relationship for it to work.

Janeway Chakotay is what we all need. And to do this day I'm unsure why it never happened. I know the captain has to keep this 'Distance' but that barrier has broken down by the end of the show. I think they really really missed an oppurtunity there. And yes that's very true it does fit with the plot. And that conflict between janeway and seven would of beem interesting to see.

Tbh overall I just think the ending was a rushed mess to a show I absolutely adored. The final plot had so much potential to it and I really really liked the premise of it. But it was spoiled by Chakotay seven for me and the fact that they didn't even get back to Earth!! I would have loved to see just one episode with them back :(
 
Janeway Chakotay is what we all need. And to do this day I'm unsure why it never happened. I know the captain has to keep this 'Distance' but that barrier has broken down by the end of the show. I think they really really missed an oppurtunity there. And yes that's very true it does fit with the plot. And that conflict between janeway and seven would of beem interesting to see.

Tbh overall I just think the ending was a rushed mess to a show I absolutely adored. The final plot had so much potential to it and I really really liked the premise of it. But it was spoiled by Chakotay seven for me and the fact that they didn't even get back to Earth!! I would have loved to see just one episode with them back :(
Missed potential is how I feel as well. And I agree, we don't see Voyager get back, really. I know some would argue all the implications, but it would be nice to see the reunion rather than just gloss over it. Also, it would have been an interesting way to cap off the series by showing Janeway and Chakotay who started out as adversaries becoming romantically interested. Cliche, perhaps, but I would have liked it.

I just think a lot of stuff was rushed for the sake of the Borg and time travel.
 
Janeway Chakotay is what we all need. And to do this day I'm unsure why it never happened. I know the captain has to keep this 'Distance' but that barrier has broken down by the end of the show. I think they really really missed an oppurtunity there. And yes that's very true it does fit with the plot. And that conflict between janeway and seven would of beem interesting to see.

Tbh overall I just think the ending was a rushed mess to a show I absolutely adored. The final plot had so much potential to it and I really really liked the premise of it. But it was spoiled by Chakotay seven for me and the fact that they didn't even get back to Earth!! I would have loved to see just one episode with them back :(
Missed potential is how I feel as well. And I agree, we don't see Voyager get back, really. I know some would argue all the implications, but it would be nice to see the reunion rather than just gloss over it. Also, it would have been an interesting way to cap off the series by showing Janeway and Chakotay who started out as adversaries becoming romantically interested. Cliche, perhaps, but I would have liked it.

I just think a lot of stuff was rushed for the sake of the Borg and time travel.
Wasn't it a case of Kate Mulgrew fighting against a relationship between Janeway and Chakotay?
 
Missed potential is how I feel as well. And I agree, we don't see Voyager get back, really. I know some would argue all the implications, but it would be nice to see the reunion rather than just gloss over it. Also, it would have been an interesting way to cap off the series by showing Janeway and Chakotay who started out as adversaries becoming romantically interested. Cliche, perhaps, but I would have liked it.

I just think a lot of stuff was rushed for the sake of the Borg and time travel.
Wasn't it a case of Kate Mulgrew fighting against a relationship between Janeway and Chakotay?

Oh really? Kate Mulgrew didn't like the idea?

Missed potential is how I feel as well. And I agree, we don't see Voyager get back, really. I know some would argue all the implications, but it would be nice to see the reunion rather than just gloss over it. Also, it would have been an interesting way to cap off the series by showing Janeway and Chakotay who started out as adversaries becoming romantically interested. Cliche, perhaps, but I would have liked it.

I just think a lot of stuff was rushed for the sake of the Borg and time travel.

And yes absolutely agree! ☺ harry seeing his parents? Seven meeting her aunt? The doctor making an attempt to fit in for the first time? It would have been fantastic even if just for one episode
 
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