Was Kes a Good Character?
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I did not like Seven of Nine. She completely took over the show. Plus her character was very abrasive and annoying. I felt that Hugh was a much better rehabilitated Borg. I wish Seven of Nine had been more like him.
I definitely preferred Kes over Seven of Nine.
I definitely preferred Kes over Seven of Nine.
The whole short lifespan thing confused me. When it was first mentioned that the Ocampan lifespan was "9 years", I took that to mean 9 Ocampan years, implying that her planet had a much longer/slower orbit around its star - one Ocampan year equalling approximately 9-10 Earth years. Clearly, with every planet in the galaxy speaking English and using Earth measurements of time and distance, this turned out not to be the case.
Also, Kes was what, two years old when she joined Voyager? How fast do Ocampans grow? She was fully adult-sized by the age of two, you'd be able to physically see the growth difference from one day to the next, clothes would be impractical as you'd need a new set every day, and Ocampan children must have had to be constantly eating to maintain that sort of growth.
Apologies if any of this was indeed explained in the show, it's been a long time since I've watched any Voyager, especially the first season.
As ill-thought out as her species was though, I did like Kes. In a show full of not-particularly-likeable characters, her sunny disposition and kindness stood out.
Also, Kes was what, two years old when she joined Voyager? How fast do Ocampans grow? She was fully adult-sized by the age of two, you'd be able to physically see the growth difference from one day to the next, clothes would be impractical as you'd need a new set every day, and Ocampan children must have had to be constantly eating to maintain that sort of growth.
Apologies if any of this was indeed explained in the show, it's been a long time since I've watched any Voyager, especially the first season.
As ill-thought out as her species was though, I did like Kes. In a show full of not-particularly-likeable characters, her sunny disposition and kindness stood out.
Bry_Sinclair wrote
I loved Kes but she was never fully utilised then dropped in favour of a larger cup size
No she was dropped because Garrett Wang got a one time mention in (iirc) People Magazine. TPTB decision to retain Wang is what resulted in the departure of Kes. Espaço-chica
Exactly right. Whatever problems were retroactively claimed by Taylor, Berman, et al. in knowing what to do with her (put to the lie by her increased prominence in Season 3 episodes), Kes was not replaced by Seven. It was simply time for show runners to bring in a Borg character, who might have been male (IIRC Nigel Havers was mentioned as a possibility), because Voyager was approaching Borg space and having a Borg amongst the crew being terraformed by Janeway was an idea that was thought to be one that would re-energize the show's ratings. Kim would have been gone except for the aforementioned Most Beautiful People inclusion, that was probably forgotten about by women and Asian-Americans partisan supporters of Wang's presence on the show by the time two or three more issues hit the newsstands. No bump in popularity there, but the producers had to be mindful of the possibility of unwanted protests, so off Kes went into the Great Beyond.
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"Well, the world needs ditch diggers too"
I loved Kes but she was never fully utilised then dropped in favour of a larger cup size
No she was dropped because Garrett Wang got a one time mention in (iirc) People Magazine. TPTB decision to retain Wang is what resulted in the departure of Kes. Espaço-chica
Exactly right. Whatever problems were retroactively claimed by Taylor, Berman, et al. in knowing what to do with her (put to the lie by her increased prominence in Season 3 episodes), Kes was not replaced by Seven. It was simply time for show runners to bring in a Borg character, who might have been male (IIRC Nigel Havers was mentioned as a possibility), because Voyager was approaching Borg space and having a Borg amongst the crew being terraformed by Janeway was an idea that was thought to be one that would re-energize the show's ratings. Kim would have been gone except for the aforementioned Most Beautiful People inclusion, that was probably forgotten about by women and Asian-Americans partisan supporters of Wang's presence on the show by the time two or three more issues hit the newsstands. No bump in popularity there, but the producers had to be mindful of the possibility of unwanted protests, so off Kes went into the Great Beyond.
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"Well, the world needs ditch diggers too"
See, now this is exactly what I expected her character to be when I watched Caretaker. By giving her a short lifespan I assumed she would live through the duration of the series and be the the bittersweet part of the finale when the ship would get home.
The voyage of the series would be a reflection of her whole life. But, when you're on network TV and ratings are flagging, a taller catsuited blonde with huge implants sells the show better. Thank Goodness the new series will be on the net!
I agree that I didn't want to see either depart. Not knowing the numbers reality in show budgeting, I guess one has to take at face value, the unarticulated but plausible and oft suggested reason that another continuing character could not be afforded. As I said above, It doesn't seem that there was really a explicit intention to eliminate Kes as a character given the attention she was being given, though an argument could be made that her departure may have been foreshadowed in Darkling or even as far back as Warlord.
If the money was the issue, I wonder why that couldn't have been simply stated as the reason for her departure, rather than the "don't know what to do with her" line that was adopted. Perhaps it's just not seen as politic to make such a bald, if truthful statement, out of concern of more overtly inflaming the ire of viewers who saw the one dispatched as an integral and/or beloved character.
If the money was the issue, I wonder why that couldn't have been simply stated as the reason for her departure, rather than the "don't know what to do with her" line that was adopted. Perhaps it's just not seen as politic to make such a bald, if truthful statement, out of concern of more overtly inflaming the ire of viewers who saw the one dispatched as an integral and/or beloved character.
I am rewatching Voy, I am on season 3 and I am just gritting my teeth until she explodes and it's over.
It was common for female actresses in Trek to have padded bras or padded costumes.
Ryan the actress is a 32d, Seven of Nine the character was bigger than that, an E or F cup. If you've seen Ryan in other roles she is busty, but not as big as Seven.
Below is what Ryan wore under her costume, breast forms and a corset.
I sometimes dream about a Voyager where Seven is on board from the start. Sometimes, when I see Kes on the screen, I squint and pretend it's Seven.
One thing I wonder with Seven of Nine:
let us say that those in charge had decided to add a female Borg to the show and decided that Riley who we could see in the episode "Unity" should have joined the crew there and then.
She would have had exactly the same stories during the coming seasons as Seven had.
Would she has been as popular as Seven?
I just wonder.
teacake wrote:
Somewhat sick, I think.
I must admit that even in my worst anti-Seven days, I never wished that to the character.
And why do you watch those seasons if you find Kes that repulsive. I haven't watched season 4-6 since 2001 and never watched season 7, except for "Endgame".
let us say that those in charge had decided to add a female Borg to the show and decided that Riley who we could see in the episode "Unity" should have joined the crew there and then.
She would have had exactly the same stories during the coming seasons as Seven had.
Would she has been as popular as Seven?
I just wonder.
teacake wrote:
Somewhat sick, I think.
I must admit that even in my worst anti-Seven days, I never wished that to the character.
And why do you watch those seasons if you find Kes that repulsive. I haven't watched season 4-6 since 2001 and never watched season 7, except for "Endgame".
Riley was a little different. She was assimilated as a adult and had a clear memory of being human. She would have had problems, sure. Things like PTSD but there would have been no need to go way back to the beginning and relearn everything like they did with Seven. It wouldn't be much of a journey.
I have finally decided what my problem was with Kes. Kes the medical assistant and quasi counselor was ok. I don't care for what I call 'magical mystical' characters among the regular cast of any of the shows. I don't mind the random alien who can do incredible things but a regular cast member? Don't like it much. After a while they start to relying on 'that' aspect of one of the crew members to get them out of any given situation. I barely tolerate the Vulcan mind melds and just to show fairness I also don't care for the idea of fixing every other problem with Seven's implants.
Well, if she had stayed she wouldn't have had the abilities she showed in The Gift, as they were simply designed to facilitate her departure. In fact before Scorpion, the last two episodes she was featured prominently in, Darkling and Before and After, she didn't display her psionic powers at all. Even in Scorpion, it was limited to precognition and being able to communicate with the Undine.
I can see their being developed over time and perhaps not to the same extent if she made the full run on the show. After all, these abilities didn't exactly come out of thin air. They were mentioned as part of the physiological history of the Ocampa from the very beginning.
I can see their being developed over time and perhaps not to the same extent if she made the full run on the show. After all, these abilities didn't exactly come out of thin air. They were mentioned as part of the physiological history of the Ocampa from the very beginning.
Kes had potential, but in the end was a poorly thought out character that failed to live up to it. Writers fault. Seven was a far better character.
Yes, Kes was a good characters! To me, she was the best, actually. The most interesting character and the one with the most potential. Whether they utilized her to this potential is another thing, though. It was hit and miss with the Kes episodes.
I loved Seven, too, but keeping a cypher like Kim (whom I like, too) and firing Jen Lien was a bad decision. I'm still convinced of it.
I loved Seven, too, but keeping a cypher like Kim (whom I like, too) and firing Jen Lien was a bad decision. I'm still convinced of it.
I voted no better or worse than the others, but it equates to had potential that was never realised. The same was true for most of the crew !
Kim was never much more than Tom's sidekick, Tuvok was a rather one dimensional Vulcan, Chakotay was both ignored, patronised, and a cliche and Neelix only became more than annoying 'comedy relief' due to the performance if Ethan Phillips.
Yes, Tom and B'elnna got some development, Seven did, Janeway wrongly dominated the attention of the writing staff and the Doctor was a (deserved) focal point. They weren't exactly the most talented cast and half of them were certainly underwritten.
Kes only living a few years could have been fascinating - a chance for her character to change as she matured. Not only were there all sorts of character developments possible, the dramatic potential of trying to (or not trying to) extend her lifespan, moral aspects and the reactions of her friends would have made great viewing.
Like most other things in Voyager - potential wasted...
Kim was never much more than Tom's sidekick, Tuvok was a rather one dimensional Vulcan, Chakotay was both ignored, patronised, and a cliche and Neelix only became more than annoying 'comedy relief' due to the performance if Ethan Phillips.
Yes, Tom and B'elnna got some development, Seven did, Janeway wrongly dominated the attention of the writing staff and the Doctor was a (deserved) focal point. They weren't exactly the most talented cast and half of them were certainly underwritten.
Kes only living a few years could have been fascinating - a chance for her character to change as she matured. Not only were there all sorts of character developments possible, the dramatic potential of trying to (or not trying to) extend her lifespan, moral aspects and the reactions of her friends would have made great viewing.
Like most other things in Voyager - potential wasted...
That is exactly what happened to her. I'm not wishing it on the character, I'm waiting for the event.
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