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Was Kes a Good Character?

Was Kes a Good Character?

  • Yes, definitely.

    Votes: 28 24.1%
  • No, she was poor.

    Votes: 15 12.9%
  • Had potential but it was never realised.

    Votes: 65 56.0%
  • No better or worse than any of the others.

    Votes: 8 6.9%

  • Total voters
    116
Kes had potential, but rarely shined. Not the fault of the character, or the actress, but of the writing. With the development of her mental powers, the biggest missed opportunity was not having Kes come back periodically (when it was decided she was out and & was in), maybe once or twice a season at least, and show how she had developed. Instead, we were given....Fury.

Yup. She should have been kept on board, even if she did not appear, until after Year of Hell to close that temporal loop and then made a couple of appearances each season, aging appropriately.

The only good thing about Kes departure was that Seven turned into a woman. Up until then he would have been a man because no Trek show needs four female stars, no sireee no.
 
Kes kept even with the Voyager crew as for intelligence, looks, behavior etc. Certainly her character in 'Warlord' would have been overwhelmed if she didn't posses the native strength, mental power and psychology to exemplify over the rest of the crew.
 
a lot of here episodes were crap, at least the mental ones. She WAS in many ways the only female character that was treated as an actual woman.
 
Yup. She should have been kept on board, even if she did not appear, until after Year of Hell to close that temporal loop and then made a couple of appearances each season, aging appropriately.

The only good thing about Kes departure was that Seven turned into a woman. Up until then he would have been a man because no Trek show needs four female stars, no sireee no.
I totally agree with your statement.
 
In the beginning? Yes, I liked Kes. When she went crazy and tried to kill everybody? Nah, I thought that was a terrible story, and I think it ruined her character for me.
 
In the beginning? Yes, I liked Kes. When she went crazy and tried to kill everybody? Nah, I thought that was a terrible story, and I think it ruined her character for me.
It didn't ruin the character for me since I consider the pathetic wreck in that insulting, horrible story not to be the real Kes.
But it almost ruined my interest in Star Trek and it did definitely ruin my confidence in certain writers and producers. To this day, I still get angry when I see he names of Brannon Braga, Bryan Fuller and Michael Taylor.
 
It didn't ruin the character for me since I consider the pathetic wreck in that insulting, horrible story not to be the real Kes.
But it almost ruined my interest in Star Trek and it did definitely ruin my confidence in certain writers and producers. To this day, I still get angry when I see he names of Brannon Braga, Bryan Fuller and Michael Taylor.
Unfortunately for me, when I watch older episodes, I remember what's going to happen to her later on. I don't generally write off episodes, even ones I hate, but yeah, I think they did an awful job with her towards the end of her run.
 
Unfortunately for me, when I watch older episodes, I remember what's going to happen to her later on. I don't generally write off episodes, even ones I hate, but yeah, I think they did an awful job with her towards the end of her run.
There you have the reason for hating a certain episode, promise to never watch it again, strongly loathe those who came up with it and try to find a solution for undoing the damage to the character.

My story "Coming Home" which do away with the damage to the character is available on the Kes Website! :techman:
 
In the beginning? Yes, I liked Kes. When she went crazy and tried to kill everybody? Nah, I thought that was a terrible story, and I think it ruined her character for me.

Well, I guess it can exert an oversized impression, out of proportion to the totality of what we had come to know (and for a good number of us love) about the character, simply by being the last and, by far, the most recently executed representation of her. However, for myself, I feel able to see it as a one off that doesn't in any way, materially impact how I view and value Kes. Personally, I don't find the premise implausibly out of hand and I'm rather dubious that the decision to do this kind of story, centered on her return, represented some animus on the part of TPTB. I just don't think I can find it credible to believe that an entire episode would be spent with the intent, explicitly conceived or even partially so, of pettily displaying contempt towards a small segment of the audience.

The idea may have simply been to revisit someone from the ship's past and would seem to suggest that at least some higher ups didn't, in fact, give the character short shrift in the backstory of the show, despite what I clearly feel was a stark and lamentable failure to recognize and highlight the spectacular talent that they had in their midst. In fact, not knowing the details for how the germ of the idea to bring Kes back came to be, as unlikely as it might seem, I wonder if it was generated or at least bolstered by someone's feeling of concern for the downward path that Lien may have already been seen as falling into, and the episode may have been an attempt to give her some exposure again, so as to help her get back in the game, as it were. That may very well be a conceit, fanciful in its likelihood and not supported by any real foundation, but I find it interesting to contemplate the possibility, even, of such a scenario.
 
Well, I guess it can exert an oversized impression, out of proportion to the totality of what we had come to know (and for a good number of us love) about the character, simply by being the last and, by far, the most recently executed representation of her. However, for myself, I feel able to see it as a one off that doesn't in any way, materially impact how I view and value Kes. Personally, I don't find the premise implausibly out of hand and I'm rather dubious that the decision to do this kind of story, centered on her return, represented some animus on the part of TPTB. I just don't think I can find it credible to believe that an entire episode would be spent with the intent, explicitly conceived or even partially so, of pettily displaying contempt towards a small segment of the audience.

The idea may have simply been to revisit someone from the ship's past and would seem to suggest that at least some higher ups didn't, in fact, give the character short shrift in the backstory of the show, despite what I clearly feel was a stark and lamentable failure to recognize and highlight the spectacular talent that they had in their midst. In fact, not knowing the details for how the germ of the idea to bring Kes back came to be, as unlikely as it might seem, I wonder if it was generated or at least bolstered by someone's feeling of concern for the downward path that Lien may have already been seen as falling into, and the episode may have been an attempt to give her some exposure again, so as to help her get back in the game, as it were. That may very well be a conceit, fanciful in its likelihood and not supported by any real foundation, but I find it interesting to contemplate the possibility, even, of such a scenario.
Fair point, but it was probably just shitty writing.
 
Wasn't it a case of their wanting to get rid of the character altogether? I have some vague memories of reading about this somewhere ... a very long time ago. If my memory serves me right, the wanted to kill Kes off, then enter Lien who said she'd resume the role on condition they didn't kill her off and hey presto we got that horrible FURY.
Or has anyone read/heard otherwise?
 
The prospect of Kes returning, even on a sporadic basis, seems rather remote. Not to say that most of the viewers had totally forgotten her, making such a decision dubious, but there was a fair sized cohort of the audience that had likely only come aboard, at least seriously, with Seven's introduction. Even with a peripheral knowledge of who she had been, it just wouldn't seem to add anything to the show's appeal to take this step, only its cost. If the show runners had experienced a change of mind about the character, i don't think that it would plausibly have taken that long to reverse themselves. Generally, I just don't see any reason that they would have come to see Jesus, so to speak, at this or any time after she was let go originally. I think that one could also claim it unlikely that such a glaring error, if even that was acknowledged privately, would have been admitted publicly by taking the step of bringing the character back.

You may not be saying it exactly, but I would just remark that she didn't actually die at the end of the episode, but I guess you're referring more to the assassination of her personality, as it had been long established.
 
I was disappointed by her return; I wanted a story which would evolve the character from her last episode. Maybe even a Who Mourns for Adonis type episode, also the female caretaker was a plot the writers completely abandoned which they could've brought back. Another idea of a group of Ocampa who lived past the age of nine, and they're 30 years old and doesn't look decrepit.

Fury was such an insult to the character and the fans who loved Jennifer Lien's, and Kes.
 
Wasn't it a case of their wanting to get rid of the character altogether? I have some vague memories of reading about this somewhere ... a very long time ago. If my memory serves me right, the wanted to kill Kes off, then enter Lien who said she'd resume the role on condition they didn't kill her off and hey presto we got that horrible FURY.
Or has anyone read/heard otherwise?
That's right! I've read it too.
 
What I regret the most with Kes, it's that the actress who is behind, Jennifer Lien, really had the potential to develop her character, even if it means associating her to an other one, for example the Doctor (not the Doctor from s1-3 but the Doctor from s4, whose personality was more developed and independent).
I think that Kes/the Doctor would have been able to handle Seven in teaching her the living together, the patience, to accept better the imperfection Human;;; Well, the rediscovery of her humanity, like used to say Janeway.
I liked the relation which Seven had with Naomie Wildman but alas, the latter was still a child. And of course, the relation Janeway / Seven. Janeway would be the mother and Seven, her foster daughter :)
 
We've followed Kes' Life-journey all the way from - literally - a newly fertilised egg and then through to the edge of oblivion ... and beyond. I don't believe any other character has that distinction, not even Spock, who's experienced - first hand - death and resurrection. She may not have been fully realised as a character, but I tell you true: she's probably the most uniquely presented character in STAR TREK ... even more so than Odo.
 
Stating the obvious perhaps, but I can't help but say that I experience the most gratifying frisson in those very rare occasions when I read someone else describing this extraordinary character as representing the summit in some measure of realization and execution in the totality of the franchise. Sir, I salute you with heartfelt appreciation!!!!!:techman:
 
I liked Kes a lot. Without her I don't think the doctor would have become what he became. He might have been but it would have taken longer. I also liked her innocence. I would have liked to see the potential realized sooner, as well as the new hairstyle she had in Before and After.
 
^^
I agree with most of what you have written but disagree on the hairstyle. I prefer the shorter hairstyle, it was a sort of trademark for her.
With longer hair she looked just like any ordinary female Starfleet character.
 
I liked Kes a lot. Without her I don't think the doctor would have become what he became. He might have been but it would have taken longer. I also liked her innocence. I would have liked to see the potential realized sooner, as well as the new hairstyle she had in Before and After.
Kes, was the first member of the crew who saw the Doctor as sentient; this could be because Kes is fairly as young. She sees the Doctor as the same age as her to which they had a special connection.
 
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