True enough, I was just amusing myself with the scenario.
I always assumed the only reason Earth didn't get assimilated was because the Borg were either distracted by other things or simply didn't want to go through with it for some reason (yet).
Was Janeway wrong in Scorpion?
- Thread starter Tribble puncher
- Start date
True enough, I was just amusing myself with the scenario.
I always assumed the only reason Earth didn't get assimilated was because the Borg were either distracted by other things or simply didn't want to go through with it for some reason (yet).
The Borg Collective was in awe of Humanity, just as the rest of the Universe is, come on! Nothing else explains it ...
Yeah, I figured they were just testing us.
Checking our weapons and defenses, taking that data back to Borg central and preparing a fleet to use all that stuff against us. It would be tactically sound, I think.
At the time they believed that 8472 started the war and had every intent of wiping out all life in the galaxy. With that knowledge, they were correct.
And it's arguable that even knowing that the Borg started the war, had Voyager not stepped in, 8472 would have blamed the entire galaxy for the Borg and actually done so.
But it was pretty clear their motives were entirely selfish, so perhaps they did the right thing for the wrong reason. (Whereas in TNG they always do the wrong thing for the right reason.
)
And it's arguable that even knowing that the Borg started the war, had Voyager not stepped in, 8472 would have blamed the entire galaxy for the Borg and actually done so.
But it was pretty clear their motives were entirely selfish, so perhaps they did the right thing for the wrong reason. (Whereas in TNG they always do the wrong thing for the right reason.
)Janeway's primary problem is that she made this monumental decision that affected the entire Quadrant without even bothering to TRY and look at the bigger picture. She made a decision that they species who actually live in this Quadrant are going to have to clean up LONG after Voyager leaves, and this apparently never occurred to Janeway. She also apparently never considered the possibility that the Borg started the war in the first place, THE BORG!! Also, it takes a special kind of arrogance and narcissism to demand that your subordinates not only obey your orders, but to change their fundamental beliefs and wholeheartedly agree that your morally dubious and highly questionable decision is right, and then act like it's some fundamental betrayal when they don't. That's the main problem with Janeway's command style as a whole. She rushes into decisions without stopping for two seconds to consider alternate possibilities, and it blows up in her face. That's how she got her crew stuck out there in the first place.
Realistically, how is anybody supposed to have the forethought to know all that? If Arturis and his people knew Voyager was involved and helping the Borg, why didn't open a dialog with her to get her to stop? You can't only make choices based on the info provided to you. How can Arturis blame Janeway when his own government did NOTHING to get involved.
The Borg were almost exterminated.
They had to "rebuild" which fast tracked a few assimilations that they had been on the fence about because the new initiates had little to offer or they were high hanging fruit.
Months later Arturis's lot were assimilated.
...
It's like choosing any pivotal moment in history before 1941 and suggesting that if X had done Y differently then there would have been no Jewish Holocaust, therefore X is responsible for 6 million dead..
They had to "rebuild" which fast tracked a few assimilations that they had been on the fence about because the new initiates had little to offer or they were high hanging fruit.
Months later Arturis's lot were assimilated.
...
It's like choosing any pivotal moment in history before 1941 and suggesting that if X had done Y differently then there would have been no Jewish Holocaust, therefore X is responsible for 6 million dead..
Thinking the Borg would stick to their word was a huge risk.
And had they taken Voyager to Earth, a Borg attack facing a post-Dominion War UFP is the last thing it needed. Earth, Vulcan, Andor, etc. would have been easy pickings.
Species 8472 on hindsight reminded me a lot of Iain M. Banks' Idirans from Consider Phlebas and I assume there was something biomechanical about them (hence surviving in the nebula like environment of their homespace, hard vacuum, or a Earth like atmosphere).
"Captain" Chakotay voided all good faith by going back on Janeway's deal.
He spaced dozens of Borg and tried to run without completing the weapon or living up to the obligations of their alliance.
If the Borg had murdered half of Voyagers crew, and then changed their mind, claiming to want to go back to the old deal before they had murdered half of voyagers crew, do you think Janeway would let sleeping dogs lay, or would she have stabbed the Borg in the Back once she got everything she needed, because no one kills her crew and gets away with it?
2 Simple Question, has the Borg ever lied before this point, and are the Borg evil from their own perspective?
He spaced dozens of Borg and tried to run without completing the weapon or living up to the obligations of their alliance.
If the Borg had murdered half of Voyagers crew, and then changed their mind, claiming to want to go back to the old deal before they had murdered half of voyagers crew, do you think Janeway would let sleeping dogs lay, or would she have stabbed the Borg in the Back once she got everything she needed, because no one kills her crew and gets away with it?
2 Simple Question, has the Borg ever lied before this point, and are the Borg evil from their own perspective?
Every drone gets the new iPhone on the first day! Fully integrated service! That's cool.
The Borg aren't good or evil from their perspective, the Borg are right.
Come on, the Borg teenager automatically has all the cool gadgets!
I think Janeway's decision would have been more dubious if the 8472 didn't explicitly state the intention of exterminating the galaxy. They had that intention because the Borg attacked them, but they would have done it nonetheless.
And I thought as of Scorpion, 8472 were cool, but then they didn't take them in any interesting direction.
And I thought as of Scorpion, 8472 were cool, but then they didn't take them in any interesting direction.
That's absolutely correct! When 8472 announced they were Commie, Nazi bastards, they tore their ass on that one! 
It had taken 8472 almost two years to put a dent in the Borg, when it took Janeway 1/2 an hour to build a magic bullet.
The Galaxy was in no danger even if they did want to purge it.
The Galaxy was in no danger even if they did want to purge it.
The Borg believing they are improving life by forcing people into slavery is a lie to themselves, so how could anything else they say to sway you to join them be true?
Too quote Quark: "Nobody who is nefarious thinks of themselves as nefarious."
It's not forethought, it's common sense. "Hey, maybe if we make a deal with an alien race that we KNOW to be hostile to take out another alien race, it could cause problems for the people here after we leave since the aforementioned hostile race will have eliminated it's greatest threat/obstacle." That should be obvious, especially since the Borg have shown themselves to be a highly aggressive species in the past. I'm not seeing how Janeway had to possess some great foresight to see that working with the Borg was a bad idea. Ask Picard or Sisko if working with the Borg is a good idea and see how they react, and Janeway knows as much as them.
