Was it a mistake to do a movie set in TOS time period?

[ClayHefner]

I ask this: why don't you also bemoan the fact that TBTB didn't think that TOS TV bridge was good enough for TMP, TWoK, and TSfS?

I thought that one was shit too. The worst of all the Enterprise bridges in my opinion.
I don't say they should have the exact same bridge now of course lol. But the simple but effective, timeless overall design- without those ridiculous barcode scanners and plexiglass and little lights and whatnot.

But this stuff doesn't matter in a good movie, just like it didn't matter in WOK.

 

[Captain X]

Honestly I think a TOS era movie could have been good without a reboot.

Yeah.

*image of TOS bridge snipped*

No.

Ah yes, the old "it either has to be completely different or exactly the same" argument. Fail.

Honestly I think a TOS era movie could have been good without a reboot.

If no one would've griped about changes in the sets and style of the look to fit an early 21st century vision of the mid-23rd, I'd honestly agree.

I think that would depend on what kind of changes there were. Updating the design a bit to meet modern sensibility probably wouldn't have met from much resistance outside of the "REBOOT!" corps, but completely redesigning everything as they did in this movie would be out.

If no one would've griped if they decided to mess a bit with continuity to suit the story when necessary (as happened in TOS), I'd honestly agree.

If it was something minor, or something stupid, probably wouldn't be any complaint outside of the nitpickers, and even then it would probably just be one of those interesting factoids they'd stick in one of their books.

As it is, they didn't go in those directions, so the argument is moot. I will credit them with a clever (well, not clever, but contrived) way of keeping the past and not making this a true "erase the board" reboot. They didn't have to do that.

The thread is a "what if?" anyway, so I feel free to indulge myself. I can't agree with the makers of this movie being particularly cleaver, though. Seeing what they've done and reading their interviews, I just don't get that impression. I'm not saying they're stupid or anything, but when it comes to how they did this movie they weren't terribly clever. As for the type of reboot, it actually probably would have been better in a way had they done a BSG/Batman Begins style reboot, because at least then it could be judged on its own merits better. I'd probably still hate it, because I've never seen a need for a reboot, but relatively speaking it would be an improvement on this pathetic attempt to tie it in with the original universe in a vain attempt to make fans happy and to make it somehow relevant to the original.

The bridge is not that important. Even the look of the Enterprise is not that important. It's about the characters, and the story, not about the ship.

I've seen this one thrown around too, but really it's not true, because if that were the case then by that logic there really would be no need to change anything, and they could go all-out like Trials and Tribble-ations and IaMD to exactly recreate everything. Even I would be uncomfortable with that.

 

[milo bloom]

The bridge is not that important. Even the look of the Enterprise is not that important. It's about the characters, and the story, not about the ship.

I've seen this one thrown around too, but really it's not true, because if that were the case then by that logic there really would be no need to change anything, and they could go all-out like Trials and Tribble-ations and IaMD to exactly recreate everything. Even I would be uncomfortable with that.

Personally I always cite Trials and Tribble-ations and In a Mirror, Darkly as proof that the original look was still viable. As for the bridges seen in TMP through TUC, they were easy to accept as natural evolutions of the bridge seen in the series. The new bridge is impressive, but even after all these months it still just doesn't seem right. I have to believe a talented designer could have taken the old bridge design and made it look good for the big screen while still being recognizable.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I ask this: why don't you also bemoan the fact that TBTB didn't think that TOS TV bridge was good enough for TMP, TWoK, and TSfS?

I thought that one was shit too. The worst of all the Enterprise bridges in my opinion.
I don't say they should have the exact same bridge now of course lol. But the simple but effective, timeless overall design- without those ridiculous barcode scanners and plexiglass and little lights and whatnot.

But this stuff doesn't matter in a good movie, just like it didn't matter in WOK.

I agree that the glass panels are a bad idea and break up the space too much (they seem to be "in the way" of the flow of the bridge.)

I suppose I don't like the new bridge as much as I like the idea of re-designing the original. The original needed to be redesigned for a 2009 film.

 

[Aike]

Yes, big mistake. They should have used Roddenberry´s best idea (ie, the one where Spock kills JFK in the 60s) and shot it on the sets of Phase 2.

 

[ST-One]

^That bridge still looks pretty awesome imo. The new one is shit in comparison...

For those who think the old bridge is good enough for a feature film NOT made in the 60s, I ask this: why don't you also bemoan the fact that TBTB didn't think that TOS TV bridge was good enough for TMP, TWoK, and TSfS?

I do like the TOS bridge in the context of the TOS TV show, but I had no problem with the artistic team for TMP wanting to update it for 1979, nor dor I have a problem with Abrams wanting to update it for 2009 (although I don't think Abrams' bridge is perfect, either).

As for the re-boot...
Abrams wanted to do a "Star Trek" movie, and to most people "Star Trek" is about Kirk, Spock, and crew -- not about some extended fictional universe.

What he said.

 

[ST-One]

Honestly I think a TOS era movie could have been good without a reboot.

Yeah.

*image of TOS bridge snipped*

No.

Ah yes, the old "it either has to be completely different or exactly the same" argument. Fail.

Maybe then you could show us how you would update without 'rebooting' the look of the bridge-set.

 

[Cakes488]

Honestly I think a TOS era movie could have been good without a reboot.

Yeah I think this could of been done as well but with the reboot the slate is clean and they don't have to bother to come up with clever plot etc... devices to make this fit here and this fit there.

But no this isn't a mistake...they want to re-capitialize if that's a word on the spirit and ultimate success of the original. Let's face it -- it's the best one that original so why wouldn't they say hey let's go back to what really worked and try to make another shit load of money.

 

[seigezunt]

Would a movie set in the future, continuing what we know of the 24th century+ have been a better move?

They could have had a movie take place in the 25th or even 26th century, showing the NEXT Enterprise 1701-F. They could have introduced an entire new cast and crew of the Enterprise and started off on a new adventure showing us what the next Enterprise is like and future problems, which could involve time travel since we know it starts to get much more common 25th+ century.

I dunno, do you guys think it was better to do what they have done, rebooting the past, with which we were very familiar with already, instead of continuing on way post-Nemisis?

Nope. They did the right thing. I really could care piffle about the continuing voyages of TNG era folks...they played out.

 

[Captain X]

Maybe then you could show us how you would update without 'rebooting' the look of the bridge-set.

I can't exactly involve other artists in an argument they are no part of, and I don't exactly have time to draw something up, so I'll just describe it.

I'd make updated versions of the graphics to fit inside the original "screens" while still hearkening back to the original versions. I'd use more realistic buttons and controls, but keep them in the same basic configuration, and add labeling to them so they actually look functional. For the set itself, I'd add more detail so it would actually look like it was made out of metal, maybe even go as far to use metal in the set. I'd make the helm and navigation consoles look more functional to the job they are supposed to do, and I'd give tactical its own station. I'd also tone down the obnoxious colors. So really it would look a lot more like the original bridge than the Apple store, while still fitting nicely between ENT and the movie era sets.

 

[ClayHefner]

I'd make updated versions of the graphics to fit inside the original "screens" while still hearkening back to the original versions. I'd use more realistic buttons and controls, but keep them in the same basic configuration, and add labeling to them so they actually look functional. For the set itself, I'd add more detail so it would actually look like it was made out of metal, maybe even go as far to use metal in the set. I'd make the helm and navigation consoles look more functional to the job they are supposed to do, and I'd give tactical its own station. I'd also tone down the obnoxious colors. So really it would look a lot more like the original bridge than the Apple store, while still fitting nicely between ENT and the movie era sets.

Since this is supposed to be a new timeline, what does it matter? It doesn't have to fit, its past and its future are different.

If you don't like the design, okay. I don't like it either. But if there is anything that kept changing, it was the bridge. They could do better in the next movie. If not, it won't be a deal breaker. Not everything in a movie needs to be AAA.
So they made a couple of bad design choices, not a big problem. ENT had great designs and it still sucked monkey balls. By all accounts, this movie does not.
Khan had a crappy bridge that looked more like pretentious blinking lights than TOS at its worst. Remember those stupid "rainbow lights" at Chekov's station? The honeycombs?The crude animations? It was ridiculous. WOK also has plotholes large enough to drive a truck through. It was still a kickass movie that saved the franchise.

 

[TheGodfatherSJP]

I ask this: why don't you also bemoan the fact that TBTB didn't think that TOS TV bridge was good enough for TMP, TWoK, and TSfS?

I thought that one was shit too. The worst of all the Enterprise bridges in my opinion.
I don't say they should have the exact same bridge now of course lol. But the simple but effective, timeless overall design- without those ridiculous barcode scanners and plexiglass and little lights and whatnot.

But this stuff doesn't matter in a good movie, just like it didn't matter in WOK.

Actually, according to Inside Star Trek (at the end), the original bridge set was destroyed. They tried to rescue it for the first motion picture but found that cats had been...living...on the set. By living I mean picture a horde of cats using the set for a communal bathroom.

As for setting things in the TOS era, this is a good move considering they're trying to reinvigorate the franchise. I'm 27 and I grew up loving TOS the best, but many of the people my age either prefer a later series or like other SCI-FI shows better. Shatner, Nimoy, and the others have always been the "old men" of the franchise. This gives the characters a new, updated look and will draw in younger fans.

To be honest, I'll probably have to see this movie twice to really appreciate it. The first time I'll be comparing the actors' performances to the original cast, which isn't really fair. Second time I'll be able to see it with an open mind.

 

[ST-One]

I'd make updated versions of the graphics to fit inside the original "screens" while still hearkening back to the original versions. I'd use more realistic buttons and controls, but keep them in the same basic configuration, and add labeling to them so they actually look functional. For the set itself, I'd add more detail so it would actually look like it was made out of metal, maybe even go as far to use metal in the set. I'd make the helm and navigation consoles look more functional to the job they are supposed to do, and I'd give tactical its own station. I'd also tone down the obnoxious colors. So really it would look a lot more like the original bridge than the Apple store, while still fitting nicely between ENT and the movie era sets.

Since this is supposed to be a new timeline, what does it matter? It doesn't have to fit, its past and its future are different.

This. ^

Oh, and it looks nothing like an Apple Store... except for ... maybe... modern.

 

[Captain X]

Since this is supposed to be a new timeline, what does it matter? It doesn't have to fit, its past and its future are different.

Which is why it was pointless to even make this movie and doubly so to try to shoe-horn it into the regular universe.

If you don't like the design, okay. I don't like it either. But if there is anything that kept changing, it was the bridge. They could do better in the next movie. If not, it won't be a deal breaker. Not everything in a movie needs to be AAA.
So they made a couple of bad design choices, not a big problem.

It's far, far more than just a couple of bad design choices. Having a bunch of lights at eye-level is just a bad design choice. Adding pointless joystick barcode scanners is a bad design choice, doing what they did to everything about Star Trek far exceeds that. The set design is like a case in point of the mentality going into making it - flash over substance, and only doing things because they think they're cool.

ENT had great designs and it still sucked monkey balls. By all accounts, this movie does not.

Some of them were cool, but I'd disagree on both ENT having great designs and the movie not sucking monkey balls. I'm not going to do spoilers in this thread, so I'll just say that the plot makes no sense and that a lot of the changes they made also make no sense, even in the context of this AU.

Khan had a crappy bridge that looked more like pretentious blinking lights than TOS at its worst. Remember those stupid "rainbow lights" at Chekov's station? The honeycombs?The crude animations? It was ridiculous. WOK also has plotholes large enough to drive a truck through. It was still a kickass movie that saved the franchise.

Did you happen to notice how much better the bridge looked at the end of STIV? Technically it was a different ship, but the set was built from the same blueprints. The only thing they changed were those irritating and pointless blinking lights, making them instead more like the now familiar TUC style computer displays - small change, big improvement.

 

[Captain X]

This. ^

Oh, and it looks nothing like an Apple Store... except for ... maybe... modern.

Modern? I don't see Apples as modern so much as pretentious, obnoxious, and overrated.

 

[dave_R_treker]

When I first heard that they where going to do the movie in TOS time period, I thought NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. How can they do this? Shatner was Kirk, Kelly was Bones, Nimoy was Spock, etc.. But over time as I read about the movie and eveything I began to change my mind.

When Enterprise was first annoced I thought it was a bad idea (some of you still think so), but quickly changed my mind when it aired. Yes there are still things I have an issue with with that series, but I'm willing to look past it. So maybe the new movie isn't such a bad idea, and maybe it will work.

 

[ClayHefner]

Adding pointless joystick barcode scanners is a bad design choice, doing what they did to everything about Star Trek far exceeds that. The set design is like a case in point of the mentality going into making it - flash over substance, and only doing things because they think they're cool.

Just as in WOK and TUC. Need I remind you? That electronic whistle for example...lol-worthy. The ludicrous overdone militarism with bunk-beds and stuff in VI just so they could fall out of them once the ship gets attacked? Cut the new guys some slack.

So I'll just say that the plot makes no sense and that a lot of the changes they made also make no sense, even in the context of this AU.

Okay, but did the plot of ST V make sense? The whole Genesis stuff in ST III was just crazy shit. Alot in WOK didn't make sense, at best was a case of ridiculous coincidences (as some reviews have also said about this flick). And the same goes for Star Trek VI.

Did you happen to notice how much better the bridge looked at the end of STIV? Technically it was a different ship, but the set was built from the same blueprints. The only thing they changed were those irritating and pointless blinking lights, making them instead more like the now familiar TUC style computer displays - small change, big improvement.

That's true. I still don't like it. Nothing beats the bridge from the cage in my opinion. A little bigger, updated panels with BOTH touchscreen and fancy buttons, more details and less tacky and cheap-looking, as little pointless crap as possible- PERFECT (and KEWL).
Well, the bridge designers failed on this one imo. I doubt that will kill my impression of the movie.
I suppose both the TMP/TWOK/SFS bridge, just liek the new one, are victims of fashion that soon feel old and over-the top due to the kewlness-over-functionality approach.

On TOS, like on 2001 they had to improvise and take guesses what multi-functional computer displays and advanced computer workstations might look like when they're invented. In many ways this was more succesful than in 70s/ early 80s Trek or other movies of that era, like Alien.

 

[shapeshifter]

TOS has been needing a canon Origins story for decades but the time wasn't right, till now.

99% of what I have seen & heard of this movie so far screams Home Run!

 

[FlyingLemons]

To be honest, the entire "canon" issue is rendered irrelevant by the amount of times they've altered the timeline. Indeed, in First Contact they did exactly the same trick with the Borg - all of the series and films take place in an alternate timeline to the pre-FC one at the start of the film, allowing Berman & Braga to play fast and loose with the continuity and have Starfleet being aware of the Borg before "Q Who?" and thus having Archer fighting Borg and Starfleet scientists flying off to study them. This film is just another version of the same trick pulled there.

If they'd done a post-Nemesis film in the 24th or 25th century, people wouldn't have cared. A completely loyal to canon TOS would have had the retro-60s sets and been a complete embarrassment that would have killed Star Trek off permanently. By doing a reboot, they can have the TOS characters in a setting that actually looks modern, and thus restore the Trek films to being profitable and ensuring more are made.

 

[ST-One]

Which is why it was pointless to even make this movie and doubly so to try to shoe-horn it into the regular universe.

Pointless?



Pointless?

What was the point in creating any of the previous Star Trek?