Was Enterprise Rushed Too Quickly?

[Tino]

I agree that they should've waited 2-5 years before throwing out another series. Would have been a great way to make people long for ST and raise their appetite.

But I don't think ENT's problem was being a sequel and having been "rushed" out after Voyager. It had poor writing in the first and second seasons and many characters were poorly developed.

 

[Trekwatcher]

Tino said:

But I don't think ENT's problem was being a sequel and having been "rushed" out after Voyager. It had poor writing in the first and second seasons and many characters were poorly developed.

I think that the problem with the writing in S1 and S2 was not that it was poor but that it was inconsistent-they could have great shows and dreadful shows back to back.

Still, with the exception of TOS, all the Trek shows had tough first and second seasons. IMHO, TNG has an especially bad first season starting right from the pilot. These shows take time to improve as the writers, directors, and cast feel their way to the proper tone, format, etc. They usually hit their stride around season 3, which ENT certainly did.

 

[3D Master]

Possibly.

A break may have allowed it to reach the whole CBS thing; which might mean there were suits who saw wisdom into mixing things up, instead of making a carbon copy of TNG and VOY when it was supposed to be a prequel.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Trekwatcher said:I think that the problem with the writing in S1 and S2 was not that it was poor but that it was inconsistent-they could have great shows and dreadful shows back to back.

B&B had hired mostly new writers in season one. It turned out according to B&B that a lot of them weren't suited for writing Trek because it is a little different style and so they ended up having to rewrite mostly every script.

That is why a lot of the writers left and with so much writing responsibility on B&B they freely admitted several scripts suffered because of so little time before an episode had to go into production.

These shows take time to improve as the writers, directors, and cast feel their way to the proper tone, format, etc. They usually hit their stride around season 3, which ENT certainly did.

But by this point B&B had plenty of experience with Trek that they should have known what worked and didn't work.

 

[gblews]

startrekwatcher said:
B&B had hired mostly new writers in season one. It turned out according to B&B that a lot of them weren't suited for writing Trek because it is a little different style and so they ended up having to rewrite mostly every script.

That is why a lot of the writers left and with so much writing responsibility on B&B they freely admitted several scripts suffered because of so little time before an episode had to go into production.

Assuming what you say is fact, it becomes more and more obvious that there were plenty of reasons, most centering around how the Beebs ran the show, why ENT wasn't a better show sooner than season 3. Yet the Beebs usually shirk responsiblity by blaming the show's shorter run on "franchise fatigue". They were the only thing that was fatigued.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Admiral_Young said:
I didn't know they were developing it as early as Voyager Season 5...I wonder what the other ideas were before it was conclusive they wanted to explore the prequel idea.

It was pretty clear from interviews Braga felt the 24th century was played out. He also thought going into the future would just be too much so it was settled early on with the prequel.

There was some talk about a TCW series that would focus on numerous factions trying to change history at various points in time. The main cast would be comprised of a group of temporal agents like Daniels. This is where the TCW got pulled into ENT when the studio wanted a future element.

There was also a concept that was Earth-based where we would see humanity build its first deep space starship. The studio hated that idea.

 

[Anna Yolei]

startrekwatcher said:
...by this point B&B had plenty of experience with Trek that they should have known what worked and didn't work.

And what they (and the studio network as well) thought that worked was TNG. And don't get me wrong, I love TNG, but while that show had hard-hitting stories to counterbalance the episodes made of epic fail (And TNg had many of those), Enterprise was just settling for mediocre stories that had been done time over again or ones that were just plain stupid, or ones that had potential and TIIC didn't tap into it ("Unexpected").

And unlike TNg, Enterprise didn't have the bonus of Trek-starved fans to give it a free pass, and even less so with Voyager being as unpopular as it had become at the time.

But overall, that's giving the writing far too much credit in this show's demised. It had too many factors going against it and writing, however inconsistent, was only one of them--and with the changing of the guard, and Les Moonves being the lover of complete shit that he is, I doubt it was the biggest factor to the show's demise.

 

[Jax]

ENT was rushed 3 years too early cause then we had Manny Coto. To be honest with the ratings decline for the final years of DS9 and Voyager, you would of thought the exec's might of been smart enough to have a small break of 1 or 2 years and come back with a fresh writing team instead of B&B.

On another note, I always felt Berman was better than Braga, especially after I heard some of Berman's ideas for Voyager like Year of Hell being like half a season long ARC but Braga didn't like it. Also I think Berman had the idea of an early non Borg or future Janeway return to Earth so we could see what happened next but again Braga didn't like it and talked him out of it.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Anna Yolei said:
And what they (and the studio network as well) thought that worked was TNG. And don't get me wrong, I love TNG, but while that show had hard-hitting stories to counterbalance the episodes made of epic fail (And TNg had many of those), Enterprise was just settling for mediocre stories that had been done time over again or ones that were just plain stupid, or ones that had potential and TIIC didn't tap into it ("Unexpected").

ENT did copy the format in the first two seasons of TOS/TNG--that wasn't necessarily a problem. I know many pointed to the episodic format as one of the weaknesses of the show it really wasn't. The difference was TOS/TNG had better writing.

ENT's standalones weren't exciting, had no mystery, no sense of awe, had predictable endings with no twists, often felt drawn out with no energy. Episodes like "Dead Stop", "The Catwalk", "First Flight", "Minefield", "Fallen Hero", "Regeneration" did show that standalones could still work.

But overall, that's giving the writing far too much credit in this show's demised. It had too many factors going against it and writing, however inconsistent, was only one of them--and with the changing of the guard, and Les Moonves being the lover of complete shit that he is, I doubt it was the biggest factor to the show's demise.

I'm not so sure. If ENT had re-energized fans and the public almost from the start with stronger stories that held their attention and characters they cared about then the decline in viewers during those first two seasons might have led to a different outcome. However the show was still plagued by those first two seasons poor performance which the stronger season three and consistently good season four couldn't ever shake.

NX_01 Mark said:
ENT was rushed 3 years too early cause then we had Manny Coto.

There would be no guarantee that Manny would have ended up working on ENT had the show premiered three years later. Inevitably things would have unfolded differently. There were a whole host of circumstances that brought Coto to ENT in year three including Berman so who knows what would have happened if the show hadn't premiered until 2004.

On another note, I always felt Berman was better than Braga, especially after I heard some of Berman's ideas for Voyager like Year of Hell being like half a season long ARC but Braga didn't like it.

Actually it was Braga's idea for a year long Year of Hell arc that was nixed by the studio/UPN.

 

[Anna Yolei]

startrekwatcher said:

Anna Yolei said:
But overall, that's giving the writing far too much credit in this show's demised. It had too many factors going against it and writing, however inconsistent, was only one of them--and with the changing of the guard, and Les Moonves being the lover of complete shit that he is, I doubt it was the biggest factor to the show's demise.

I'm not so sure. If ENT had re-energized fans and the public almost from the start with stronger stories that held their attention and characters they cared about then the decline in viewers during those first two seasons might have led to a different outcome. However the show was still plagued by those first two seasons poor performance which the stronger season three and consistently good season four couldn't ever shake.

That ratings drop had been pretty consistent with all of Trek since the end of TNG, though.Even DS9, where there is little doubt with the majority of online fans here, went from a premiere of 30 million viewers to what was then the lowest-rated episode of Trek of four million in the episode preceding the it's finale.

Stronger writing would have, at best, stabilized rating for only so long, and it's possible there would have been a fifth season. But with all the internal politics and the inception of CW, I highly doubt much of anything aside from bringing in American Idol-type ratings would have saved this show from a CEO who likes slop.

 

[Broccoli]

NX_01 Mark said:
ENT was rushed 3 years too early cause then we had Manny Coto. To be honest with the ratings decline for the final years of DS9 and Voyager, you would of thought the exec's might of been smart enough to have a small break of 1 or 2 years and come back with a fresh writing team instead of B&B.

On another note, I always felt Berman was better than Braga, especially after I heard some of Berman's ideas for Voyager like Year of Hell being like half a season long ARC but Braga didn't like it. Also I think Berman had the idea of an early non Borg or future Janeway return to Earth so we could see what happened next but again Braga didn't like it and talked him out of it.

Uh...those were Braga's ideas to begin with (at least the "Year of Hell" being all of season 4). It was the studio that nixed it.

Besides, at the point in Trek history, Berman was top dog. If Braga didn't like it, it didn't matter, because Berman could overrule him.

 

[Zod]

Well I loved Enterprise. It really hit its stride by the fourth season. I am re loving it now on HD Net with the eps in HD. Looks awesome.

 

[number6]

I think TPTB should have waited to trot out another series. It would have given fans a chance to get an appetite for new Trek. By the time ENT came out, Trek had become just another day at the office for all concerned, on both sides of the screen.

 

[commodore64]

I posted this in the Voyager fourm but its really an ENT discussion. I've always felt that UPN and Paramount rushed the prodcution of Enterprise too quickly after Voyager ended its run.

Couldn't agree more. They needed a more developed Bible with characters they understood more going into filming. I liked Enterprise, too, but I think that really would've helped from the very beginning.

I thought season 4 of ENT was a bit silly, and am a major TOS fan.

 

[DarthPipes]

Without a doubt, the show was rushed. They should have taken a break after Voyager, especially considering the diminishing results. But Paramount's greed led them to try and squeeze out every penny they could from the franchise.

I also think there should have been a regime change on the producers. Berman and Braga were burnt out. Berman was a producer who never liked to take chances (just look at his reaction when Moore wanted to blow of Nog's legs) and Braga was too much of a gimmick writer. Star Trek needed new blood and having these guys basically write every script for the first season-and-a-half did the show no favors.

 

[Keith1701]

Broccoli said:
Maybe. I remember reading that Berman wanted to take a quick break after Voyager ended, but UPN/Paramount said no. A quick break would have at least recharged the batteries of the writers.

Then again, Enterprise might have been met with worse reaction. If it waited for a few years, there would have been a completely different cast, most likely a different writing team, etc. Who says a delayed project would have been better.

Then again again, I'm sure Berman and Co. would have loved to just take a season off after going (at that time) 14 straight.

This is a good point....

 

[Admiral_Young]

I don't mind that they started the concept of a new series during Voyager's run. However I think my real point is that there should have been some sort of break between the end of Voyager and the next series. Perhaps some of you have forgot how pissed off we were at "Endgame" and how disapointing "Broken Bow" was. We've been bitching about how the state of Star Trek has fallen since around season five of Voyager so I think a break was neccessary, we got it too late now, and thus the franchise is in a state of question with everyone wondering how JJ's movie is going to do at the box office.

I for one was excited about the prospect of a prequel and the fact that it could lead into the forming of Starfleet and the Federation and link it to TOS made it even more interesting. It was just so disapointing to see what we DID get that it all seems rushed and poorly executed.

 

[dolim]

i feel that ENT should not have been a prequel. it should have been set in the distant future around the 27th or 28 century. it could still have daniels in it from the 31st century. this time setting would match the wonderful special effects. its still not too late. maybe the next live action star trek show will be this way. i heard rumors that a web based animation show based on the 26th century maby in the works.

 

[Trekwatcher]

While I personally liked ENT the way they did it, there is always tons of room to do another show set in the timeframe of a different series. I.e. in the time of TOS, TNG, VOY, and DS9 there were lots of starfleet ships in different places doing interesting things, and they could have set it aboard one of them. I.e. the US Navy has all sorts of ships around the world at any given time, and I am sure that lots interesting things happen simultaneously on many different vessels.

 

[3D Master]

Trekwatcher said:
While I personally liked ENT the way they did it, there is always tons of room to do another show set in the timeframe of a different series. I.e. in the time of TOS, TNG, VOY, and DS9 there were lots of starfleet ships in different places doing interesting things, and they could have set it aboard one of them. I.e. the US Navy has all sorts of ships around the world at any given time, and I am sure that lots interesting things happen simultaneously on many different vessels.

The only thing worth watching in the same time frame, is something that is done RIGHT. Means means: no phase cannons, a ship much, much, much more primitive than the NX-01, no phase or even laser pistols, no Klingons, no "Starships".

In short, something that's barely recognizable as Star Trek, something that is a true prequel, and by definition that contradicts Enterprise ever scene on the screen. It would take Enterprise, and toss it out the airlock as never having happened, rightly so.