Was Christopher Columbus a Hero or a Villain?

[sidious618]

we shouldn't have a holiday for his stupidity.

Whoa now, I'm not going to condemn your opinion of Columbus, but there is NEVER a bad reason for a holiday. I'm still pissed they combined Washington's and Lincoln's birthday into President's day. Nobody wants to celebrate Rutherford B Hayes, keep it the way it was.

I agree!

 

[bigdaddy]

we shouldn't have a holiday for his stupidity.

Whoa now, I'm not going to condemn your opinion of Columbus, but there is NEVER a bad reason for a holiday. I'm still pissed they combined Washington's and Lincoln's birthday into President's day. Nobody wants to celebrate Rutherford B Hayes, keep it the way it was.

I will reply with a quote...

We have plenty of more worthy people in our history to celebrate.

There have been billions of people throughout history, there must be a few better than a dumbass.

Might as well make Nation Ice Cream Day a real holiday, give everyone the day off and some ice cream!

The economy sucks? Lets have Black Friday be a real holiday! Everyone gets a four day weekend!

 

[sidious618]

The economy sucks? Lets have Black Friday be a real holiday! Everyone gets a four day weekend!

I like that idea.

 

[STR]

we shouldn't have a holiday for his stupidity.

Whoa now, I'm not going to condemn your opinion of Columbus, but there is NEVER a bad reason for a holiday. I'm still pissed they combined Washington's and Lincoln's birthday into President's day. Nobody wants to celebrate Rutherford B Hayes, keep it the way it was.

I will reply with a quote...

We have plenty of more worthy people in our history to celebrate.

There have been billions of people throughout history, there must be a few better than a dumbass.

Might as well make Nation Ice Cream Day a real holiday, give everyone the day off and some ice cream!

The economy sucks? Lets have Black Friday be a real holiday! Everyone gets a four day weekend!

Make it an "AND" thing rather than an "INSTEAD" thing.

 

[Rett Mikhal]

But if Black Friday was a holiday, how would people buy anything?

Also, I'm probably more angered by the public education system's insistence that Tesla is a footnote and Edison is a genius than the cleaning up of Columbus. Think of the world we would have had if Edison ended up the penniless bum and Tesla got infinite funding.

 

[Owain Taggart]

But if Black Friday was a holiday, how would people buy anything?

Change Black Friday into Boxing Day, and you pretty much have the picture of what Boxing Day is for Canadians, and possibly the UK. It's considered a holiday, directly following Christmas, with some stores claiming whole weeks to Boxing Day, and some cities like mine have a bylaw preventing stores from being open on the day itself so that workers can enjoy the holidays with their family longer.

 

[TorontoTrekker]

Might as well make Nation Ice Cream Day a real holiday, give everyone the day off and some ice cream!

I could go for that.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Also the Vikings were on North America in 800s, so CC discovered jack shit and we shouldn't have a holiday for his stupidity.

Columbus' men most likely "discovered" a new and more virulent form of syphilis in the New World and brought it back to infect and kill millions in Europe, so he has that going for him. Maybe call it Columbus and Syphilis Day.

 

[MANT!]

so..lets eliminate all the historical figures that discovered something by accident from history..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serendipity


like it or not, his mistake changed the world...for better and worse...more so than the USA's landing on the moon...

 

[Davros]

On a side note I sold coffee to the leaders of the American Indian Movement the morning of the protests of Columbus Day in 1992 for the 500th year celebration since Columbus' journey.

 

[Finn]

Well if you technically look at it The Vikings were also non-native Americans and at one point the Native-Americans were also non-native Americans. Didn't they cross over some straight to get here?

I'm not sure about that. It depends on how quickly humans reached North America. When did those populations crossing the Bering Strait ceased being Asian and became North Americans? Did it take centuries? How long did the migration last?

I think it might have lasted for several thousand years.

 

[bigdaddy]

Also the Vikings were on North America in 800s, so CC discovered jack shit and we shouldn't have a holiday for his stupidity.

Columbus' men most likely "discovered" a new and more virulent form of syphilis in the New World and brought it back to infect and kill millions in Europe, so he has that going for him. Maybe call it Columbus and Syphilis Day.

Happy Syphilis Day everyone!

I like the sound of that!

But if Black Friday was a holiday, how would people buy anything?

Umm.... In what area are you living in that has malls closed on Syphilis Day? Just because it's a holiday doesn't mean stores are closed.

 

[Teelie]

WOW, so much hate for a man that during his own time was probably considered a progressive person. Look at things in context, instead of today's politically correct world where insulting someone in any way is taken to be either racist, sexist, homophobic, or some other outrageous exaggeration.

Columbus was just a man who did some remarkable things. Calling him a moron or ridiculing him because you can't see that is pretty shallow in itself. Making him responsible for the actions of other people would be like making you responsible if your great grandkid became the next genocidial murderer.

 

[ichab]

WOW, so much hate for a man that during his own time was probably considered a progressive person. Look at things in context, instead of today's politically correct world where insulting someone in any way is taken to be either racist, sexist, homophobic, or some other outrageous exaggeration.

Nothing is being blown out of proportion and this has nothing to do with political correctness. This is about historical correctness.

Columbus was just a man who did some remarkable things.

Such as?

Calling him a moron or ridiculing him because you can't see that is pretty shallow in itself. Making him responsible for the actions of other people would be like making you responsible if your great grandkid became the next genocidial murderer.

For goodness sakes, the man talked in his own diary about how the "indians" would be easy to exploit. The things he is remembered for didn't happen and the fact that this misinformation is passed down from generation to generation is sad.

 

[Teelie]

That's the problem; people look at him in current terms, not historical ones. Looking at the time, in historical accuracy, something you just pointed out, exploiting indians for slavery was not uncommon or even a big deal to them. Did I ever say the man was just a saint or good and never did a wrong thing? No, but you're taking what he did and choosing when to make it historically accurate and when to make him a villain because you're not looking objectively. I said he was an average man who did not set out to enslave or commit genocide but given the responses I'd say some people have already decided that was his intent.

What did Columbus do that was remarkable? He's the main reason Europe settled the American continents. Whatever the reasons were, good and bad, that's a remarkable thing to accomplish. He rediscovered an entire new continent (technically two since South America was also discovered as a result) but if you want to pick and choose the rights and wrongs of the man and be like bigdaddy and just find the negative, go for it.

 

[Owain Taggart]

WOW, so much hate for a man that during his own time was probably considered a progressive person. Look at things in context, instead of today's politically correct world where insulting someone in any way is taken to be either racist, sexist, homophobic, or some other outrageous exaggeration.

Nothing is being blown out of proportion and this has nothing to do with political correctness. This is about historical correctness.

Columbus was just a man who did some remarkable things.

Such as?

Calling him a moron or ridiculing him because you can't see that is pretty shallow in itself. Making him responsible for the actions of other people would be like making you responsible if your great grandkid became the next genocidial murderer.

For goodness sakes, the man talked in his own diary about how the "indians" would be easy to exploit. The things he is remembered for didn't happen and the fact that this misinformation is passed down from generation to generation is sad.

Uh wow. Really. Wow. Historical correctness? Context. It's all in the context. They were very different times back then with different thoughts processes. We can't honestly look at it in a modern context and punish them for what they did, because that would ultimately be dishonest. Different laws and different rules make a whole lot of difference on what people do. Sure, he wasn't perfect, but who is? Nobody has said he's a saint. There were people that did far worse things than he has, such as pirates. But let's not stop there. What about Roman Emperors, or Napoleon. Should these people be stricken from the history books for what they did? No. Because that's how we learn from history. But by your definition, they shouldn't be there. Are you one of those who want to remove the cigar from Churchill's photograph because we now know that smoking is bad? Historical Revisionism, hmm?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

That's the problem; people look at him in current terms, not historical ones. Looking at the time, in historical accuracy, something you just pointed out, exploiting indians for slavery was not uncommon or even a big deal to them. Did I ever say the man was just a saint or good and never did a wrong thing? No, but you're taking what he did and choosing when to make it historically accurate and when to make him a villain because you're not looking objectively. I said he was an average man who did not set out to enslave or commit genocide but given the responses I'd say some people have already decided that was his intent.

OK, I'll judge him by standards of the time. By standards of the time, he was arrested for cruelty to the Indians while governor of Hispaniola. It was only his notoriety that saved him from imprisonment.

What did Columbus do that was remarkable? He's the main reason Europe settled the American continents. Whatever the reasons were, good and bad, that's a remarkable thing to accomplish. He rediscovered an entire new continent (technically two since South America was also discovered as a result) but if you want to pick and choose the rights and wrongs of the man and be like bigdaddy and just find the negative, go for it.

The problem is he didn't do this through anything good of his own and he didn't exploit it positively. Hell, he didn't even know he discovered a new continent. He went to his grave convinced he was in India.

 

[Teelie]

So again, where did he state he was looking for slaves? His arrest for cruelty is likely partially influenced for his notoriety not to mention if you bothered including his mental and physical state at the time it can be argued he was not himself and not acting like he used to.

Also, his being convinced it was India, looking at the context, is not that much a stretch. People back then did not have gps or airplanes or the knowledge we do today so calling him ignorant for that is really not much of a statement given most people at the time thought the world was flat and those who knew otherwise probably still did not anticipate an entire continent (two really, plus a plethora of islands).

But again, call the man a villain, it's what's popular these days.

 

[stj]

You can be courageous and be a villain.

Villain.

 

[bigdaddy]

So again, where did he state he was looking for slaves? His arrest for cruelty is likely partially influenced for his notoriety not to mention if you bothered including his mental and physical state at the time it can be argued he was not himself and not acting like he used to.

Also, his being convinced it was India, looking at the context, is not that much a stretch. People back then did not have gps or airplanes or the knowledge we do today so calling him ignorant for that is really not much of a statement given most people at the time thought the world was flat and those who knew otherwise probably still did not anticipate an entire continent (two really, plus a plethora of islands).

But again, call the man a villain, it's what's popular these days.

Wow... just wow...

The fucking Vikings knew they were in a "new" land several hundred years before CC. Sure Canada and the Cuba area looks different, but he was just fucking stupid.

Why should there be a holiday for a man that didn't know he discovered anything, and was evil? "But we didn't know he was bad then", well we do now and NOW is when we have the fucking holiday and teach children bullshit lies. But let's continue on with our stupid ways, maybe we should make slavery legal again because it's not that bad, or at least wasn't back then.

I also like how you and you alone know about how he "used to act".

You are living in a dreamland... it's time to wake up!