He was given command of the Enterprise twice, at least, in TOS: "Errand of Mercy" and "Arena".
Was Chekov busted by Starfleet for the Khan debacle?
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He was given command of the Enterprise twice, at least, in TOS: "Errand of Mercy" and "Arena".
Sulu also has the conn when our heroes confront Veger at the end of TMP.
Not everyone who rises to command of a starship spends a lot of time serving as another captain's executive officer. Sulu had considerable field experience as Kirk's helmsman, as well as a background in the sciences (as seen in WNMHGB). Additionally, we saw Sulu only during his time aboard Enterprise. It's possible he had other postings during the films (as suggested by TWOK) and may have gained experience that way.
--Sran
Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
Did the Enterprise A really have a tactical station? We see a dedicated station for the refit in TMP and TWOK with Checov (Also doing the security stuff ala Worf later off), although I'm not sure if Checkov uses in it III (He seems to bounce around the stations, from navigation to science and then to communications), and then in pretty much the rest of the movies he's still at the navigator station although I guess he can use torpedoes from that. TNG of course has the tactical station from the start so I'm not sure.
There is a station on the Enterprise A bridge labeled "Tactical", but none of our named players ever occupy it.
EDITED TO ADD: As seen http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tffhd/ch11/tffhd1597.jpg here in TFF.
EDITED TO ADD: As seen http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tffhd/ch11/tffhd1597.jpg here in TFF.
First of all I'm not saying whether I personally believe Chekov should or should not be punished for negligence. I said the events that happened after the Ceti eels were not his fault and none of those events should be considered. I don't have an ax to grind with Chekov as a character so pump your breaks a bit in coming on like I'm trashing Chekov.
I'm looking at this from a STARFLEET point of view. I don't think I'm making any bold revelation when I say people are sometimes punished for the actions of others that are beyond their control. Look at someone like an NFL coach. He might be an absolute genius at understanding the game with a grasp of the fundamentals and strategies that few can match. He can coach brilliantly and make the right calls most of the time. If his team sucks though and can't make the plays to win games, none of his mastery of the game is going to save his ass from eventually getting canned.
It has been well established for centuries that senior officers aboard military, especially the CO, is ultimately held responsible for EVERYTHING that happens. That doesn't mean when something bad happens the CO is always punished, even the navy realizes that some events are just too removed to hold the CO accountable for.
There are MANY instances though where a CO has been punished, including being removed from their command, over something he/she had NOTHING to do with, because of a couple of 19 year olds carelessly handle some flammable materials and a small fire breaks out, or the CO is sleeping and the crew conning the ship run aground or hit something in waters that weren't considered to be dangerous.
A couple of specific examples:
- In the mid 2000's the CO of the USS John F. Kennedy was removed from command because the ship wasn't ready in time for a deployment. That sounds fair you probably think, it's pretty serious if a ship can't deploy on time so the CO should pay the price.
The REASONS the Kennedy couldn't deploy though were because a scheduled 2 year refit that was supposed to happen in the late 90's and add 15-20 years to the ship's service life was cancelled for budgetary reasons. Also because the carrier fleet had been cut from 15 to 12 the JFK kept being deployed again and again with no major overhauls between the missions. By the mid-2000's she was in such poor material condition that when the navy did give her several months before deploying to be repaired, it was, according to pretty much every expert, literally IMPOSSIBLE to bring the Kennedy to operational status with the time given.......
So how was the CO responsible for all the actions that led to the ship becoming so bad? He wasn't. Didn't matter though, he was in command when the deployment orders were given and he failed to meet it.
The guy who was supposed to be the last CO on the carrier Enterprise was relieved of command just before a deployment because of some off color videos he'd made and shown to the crew when he was the XO of the Enterprise a few years before. By all other accounts he did an excellent job in his commands, but didn't matter. Also the guy who was the CO of the Enterprise the time the videos were made, and had moved on to an Admiral's post since, was relieved of HIS command....because of the XO's actions years before. Despite the fact that when he had been in command the Enterprise had won the award for best overall ship in the Atlantic Fleet for the first time in the ship's history.
Also you seem to think that it shouldn't matter what the results of Reliant's actions were.......What kind of world do you live in where the results of your mistakes DON'T play a role in what consequences you face?
If a prison guard leaves his keys laying around and the worst that happens is some inmates use them to get into food storage and smuggle some to their cell.......the guard might be fired, but he might also get off with a lesser punishment or maybe even just an ass chewing.
If the same prison guard loses his keys and some inmates use them to get a bunch of weapons and attempt a breakout that kills several guards........Well not only is that guy going to lose his job for sure, but he will probably face some kind of charges for CRIMINAL negligence and might end up as a prisoner himself.
If, because they identified the wrong planet, Terrell and Chekov found Khan, got into a fight and got roughed up a bit before being able to escape back to Reliant, I doubt starfleet would see it as a court marshal offense.
Considering though that their mistake led to Khan escaping, hijacking and destroying one starship, attacking another causing major damage and casualties, killing the crew of Regula I.......and oh yeah......taking one of starfleet's most important projects and detonating it causing a galaxy wide crisis. With all these factors in place I think starfleet just might not look upon screwing up a planet identification as a little "ooopsie" and say "Oh well, let bygones be bygones."
Starfleet would want answers as to how this happened and someone was going to pay. Terrell would be the natural choice, but of course he's dead, so that leaves Chekov as the next in line.
Following the line that officers are ultimately responsible for what happens with their ship, I think that Chekov would likely be in for a world of hurt regardless of he was directly responsible or not.
It doesn't matter what any lesser officer did or didn't do to cause the screw-up, Chekov is their superior and ultimately responsible. And don't give me the "It's reasonable they didn't know the right planet because it hadn't been visited in so long" excuse. Humans can, right now, identify countless celestial objects with just telescopes and math. They can also accurately predict where may of these objects will be centuries from now.
Are you really telling me that, with the combined knowledge and technology of Starfleet had, it's "understandable" how they could pick the completely wrong planet.
It wasn't like the Ceti Alpha system was totally unknown in Space Seed. Spock immediately knew and identified it when Kirk was making his decision, so the system had clearly been charted before.
As for "Well how about blaming Khan?"....Again what led to Khan being able to do those things. If the prison guard whose lost keys led to an escape with fatal results says "Well the inmates should have KNOWN better then to use my mistake to commit their acts." I doubt that'd cut much ice in removing his responsibility for what happened.
You can debate whether or not it is "fair" or not forever, but that's the way the system works.
The bottom line is Chekov was the highest ranking officer still alive involved in something that led to a complete disaster. Organizations like Starfleet generally want some heads to roll when something that bad happens (See Admiral Kimmel and General Short after the Pearl Harbor attack) and Chekov is probably lucky he wasn't thrown out of starfleet totally and put in prison.
At any rate it seems his rise to command was cut short after TWOK.
Wow. That was quite a bit to read through. I admit I did gloss over it, but I get your point.
My only rebuttal would be that again, Kirk was in a pretty good position to shield Chekov from a lot of heat he might otherwise have faced. The other thing to consider is that Kirk's a rock star in the fleet at this point, and probably could make sure Chekov didn't get too severely punished for it all. It helps to have friends in high places.
Alternatively, it's the 23rd century. Humanity is "better." Maybe there aren't the kinds of consequences (literally) for things like this then that we expect now?
Also: Not too long afterward, Chekov is part of the group that goes off and saves the entire damn planet when the whale probe starts wreaking havoc. That would, at least to me, more than make up for any alleged crime/trouble/association/whatever Chekov might be viewed as being held accountable for. If anything, Starfleet probably just pinned it all on Terrell.
My only rebuttal would be that again, Kirk was in a pretty good position to shield Chekov from a lot of heat he might otherwise have faced. The other thing to consider is that Kirk's a rock star in the fleet at this point, and probably could make sure Chekov didn't get too severely punished for it all. It helps to have friends in high places.
Alternatively, it's the 23rd century. Humanity is "better." Maybe there aren't the kinds of consequences (literally) for things like this then that we expect now?
Also: Not too long afterward, Chekov is part of the group that goes off and saves the entire damn planet when the whale probe starts wreaking havoc. That would, at least to me, more than make up for any alleged crime/trouble/association/whatever Chekov might be viewed as being held accountable for. If anything, Starfleet probably just pinned it all on Terrell.
After they get back to Earth, have a wake for absent friends, the old command crew ask about the Enterprise. Kirk says she is to be decommissioned. Chekov asks if they will get another ship. Kirk can't get an answer do to the effect Genesis has on politics.
Chekov of course was no part of Enterprises's crew when it left Earth last time. In fact it is possible that only Spock, McCoy, Scotty, and Uhura were part of the ship's crew. Sulu was probably on some other ship and Kirk was able to get him onboard for three weeks. Uhura was likely one of the teachers at the Academy. Spock certainly was in command of Enterprise. McCoy and Scott likely stayed on for their own reasons. McCoy so he could banter Spock. Scott because these engines are his babies.
Chekov of course was no part of Enterprises's crew when it left Earth last time. In fact it is possible that only Spock, McCoy, Scotty, and Uhura were part of the ship's crew. Sulu was probably on some other ship and Kirk was able to get him onboard for three weeks. Uhura was likely one of the teachers at the Academy. Spock certainly was in command of Enterprise. McCoy and Scott likely stayed on for their own reasons. McCoy so he could banter Spock. Scott because these engines are his babies.
It's just a little weird that Chekov was the first officer on a ship involved in a vital mission, apparently one step from command and then it doesn't happen for the duration of the films.
Kirk of course gets "punished" by getting busted to captain which is actually a reward for the whales.
Spock has no desire to command.
Scotty is already chief engineer so he's about as high as he can go unless he takes a desk job which he'd hate.
McCoy is a doctor which, again, is pretty much as high as he can go in his field. I guess by TNG there were medical ships like the one Crusher commanded in All Good Things, but McCoy never aspired to command he was just a "simple country doctor" at heart.
Sulu gets the Excelsior.
Uhura just gets shafted like usual and is apparently not fit for anything beyond communications.
But Chekov had been promoted in rank and in command....but then it all just goes away. I guess you could say the stealing of the Enterprise hurt him, even if he wasn't officially charged with a crime, but why didn't it stop Sulu from getting a ship.
Just seems like for some unknown reason Starfleet decides Chekov isn't fit to put back in to a first officer role.
You could argue he was kinda sorta the first officer based on the some events in TUC and TVH, but it was never completely established like it was on the Reliant.
Or Chekov decides he wasn't interested in continuing on that path? We see in Starfleet that officers have more freedom to decline assignments than in the modern military.
Well I thnk we should keep in mind the timeline --
Wrath of Khan: Chekov is XO/Science Officer on Reliant.
Search for Spock: Chekov, like the rest of the crew, is on leave while Enterprise is "retired" before he joins Kirk's mission to save Spock.
Voyage Home: Chekov and the crew are exiled on Vulcan for three months, travel back in time to save the whales, come back, save earth, then stand trial, during which Chekov and the rest of the crew (minus Kirk) is/are exonerated of any wrongdoing to that point, mainly as thanks for saving our butts (yet again).
Final Frontier - Chekov, like the rest of the crew (save Scott and Uhura) is on shore leave in Yosemite with Sulu. Since this is likely shortly after the events in TVH, it makes sense that they'd have some more downtime, particularly after probably going through extensive debriefing. Since there's no immediate assignment for any of them, Kirk easily recalls them to duty for the Sybok crisis that Starfleet insists on sending them out to resolve.
Undiscovered Country - Again, the crew is presumably on leave prior to retirement. Uhura is teaching at the academy, Scott just bought a boat. Sulu's on deep space assignment. Once again, just when they think they're out, Starfleet pulls them back in for one last mission.
Generations: For all we know by the time of this prologue in the film, Chekov may well have been an executive officer on another ship again. Maybe even on Execlsior, working for Sulu. Nothing is stated one way or the other though, so it's really up to us.
All I'm saying is, it's not that farfetched that after TWOK Chekov never advanced in rank. We just don't know one way or the other.
Wrath of Khan: Chekov is XO/Science Officer on Reliant.
Search for Spock: Chekov, like the rest of the crew, is on leave while Enterprise is "retired" before he joins Kirk's mission to save Spock.
Voyage Home: Chekov and the crew are exiled on Vulcan for three months, travel back in time to save the whales, come back, save earth, then stand trial, during which Chekov and the rest of the crew (minus Kirk) is/are exonerated of any wrongdoing to that point, mainly as thanks for saving our butts (yet again).
Final Frontier - Chekov, like the rest of the crew (save Scott and Uhura) is on shore leave in Yosemite with Sulu. Since this is likely shortly after the events in TVH, it makes sense that they'd have some more downtime, particularly after probably going through extensive debriefing. Since there's no immediate assignment for any of them, Kirk easily recalls them to duty for the Sybok crisis that Starfleet insists on sending them out to resolve.
Undiscovered Country - Again, the crew is presumably on leave prior to retirement. Uhura is teaching at the academy, Scott just bought a boat. Sulu's on deep space assignment. Once again, just when they think they're out, Starfleet pulls them back in for one last mission.
Generations: For all we know by the time of this prologue in the film, Chekov may well have been an executive officer on another ship again. Maybe even on Execlsior, working for Sulu. Nothing is stated one way or the other though, so it's really up to us.
All I'm saying is, it's not that farfetched that after TWOK Chekov never advanced in rank. We just don't know one way or the other.
Indeed, right from the very beginning of the "Enterprise-A" era (immediately post-TVH) in the DC Comics series, Sulu was officially the 1701-A's executive officer, with Spock only holding the post of Science Officer despite technically outranking him (although a distinction appears to be made between "First Officer" and "Executive Officer" here, which is slightly odd). A page from the "Hailing Frequencies" lettercolumn from DC's Star Trek Vol. 1, issue #47 (Feb., 1988):
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/startrek/images/3/37/DC_Lettercol_41.png
It's explained in both the comics and some of the novels (including Excelsior: Forged in Fire) that Spock willingly gave up his XO position to Sulu aboard the Enterprise-A in order to help get Sulu's command career back on track following the events of TSFS and TVH. Sulu also subsequently served very briefly as executive officer to Captain Styles aboard the Excelsior (from November to December, 2289) prior to Styles' death at the Korvat Conference in that year.
Spock only resumed his old XO duties aboard the Enterprise starting in January 2290, once Sulu took command of the Excelsior -- I could see this as being consistent with his characterization as presented in both the TV series and the films, taking a handy excuse to concentrate on purely scientific duties previously, though one would probably imagine some concern for Chekov's own career, given why he didn't move "up" into Sulu's former job instead after Sulu left the ship for good.
Very similarly, I could easily see Scotty taking the exact same excuse as Spock to remain strictly down in Main Engineering unless absolutely required to take command of the ship -- and what we see onscreen in TFF tends to bear this theory out, with Scotty singlemindedly working exclusively on engineering-related tasks throughout the film's running-time, apart from very briefly stopping to execute a jailbreak of sorts.
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Right. Not everyone has the same career goals and aspirations. Perhaps Chekov's experience aboard Reliant convinced him that command wasn't in his immediate future and that his time was better spent serving aboard the Enterprise-A.
--Sran
I always thought that Chekov telling Sulu "You have no authority" in Star Trek V was somewhat uncalled for.
Since Chekov hadn't been relieved of command, Sulu had no authority to change the ship's course.
I've read the book and, to be fair, it is Takei's assertion that he feels the scene was cut in part because Shatner didn't do a good job performing it.
Bennett, Meyer nor anyone else says anything to that effect. Takei alone feels that Shatner didn't put forth a good effort in the scene because it wasn't centered around Kirk, no other person's opinions are offered to back that up.
I don't think it's really known why it was cut. Takei blames Shatner though and he REALLY takes it personally that Sulu couldn't be a captain until TUC and he is pretty brutal on Shatner.
